:)HELL YEAH WAR!!!!!!:)

Hey look who’s back! It’s everyone’s favorite unemployed Portugese citizen, Restless! Thank God man, we’d thought that you were in Tarafal, the longest functioning concentration camp in history (in your home country, Portugal).

I am sure that the thousands and thousands of people that were SPARED execution by the Coallition invasion (according to Saddam’s yearly execution statistics) are quite happy to have a skinny depressive professional protester fighting for their right to be executed by their own unelected government. Oh wait, don’t your Euro newspapers publish all of the other death statistics?

Restless you might want to ask any of the hundreds of thousands of re-settled Chaldeans in the upper Midwest USA how they feel about Saddam Hussein’s religious permissiveness.

The greatest part of this whole thing is that your Portugese government is supporting Iraqi Freedom. Now Portugal has THREE entries in the history books! 1. Henry the Navigator 2. Longest functioning fascist colonialist government (until 1974) 3. Supported the invasion of Iraq and the killing of untold thousands of helpless militants, Saddam supporters, and imported terrorists.

Don’t blame me though, I tried to convince my representatives to allow the USSR to have Portugal. With the money we could have saved on defending you, we could have had free health care, free gas, hey free McDonald’s everyday!

Ok, I said I was done posting on this subject…I changed my mind. Restless emerged from under his rock so I figured I would reply for old-times sake.

"So did you nationalistic brainwashed paranoidal fools missed me or not??"

Didn't waste time with the insults did you? No we didn't miss you...well maybe Lumpy and Monsiour Engels did.

"How's your imaginary war on terror??"

Well, Homeland Security has prevented numerous attacks since 9-11. Thanks to the Patriot Act, which is undermined by the liberals on a daily basis. So, it's actually going well at home.

"How's the gas prices obver there??"

Not bad, could be lower though.

"Still polluting a lot??"

Sorry, I'll trade my gas-guzzling 93' Grand Prix for a Hybrid that I can't afford, or I'll just start riding my bike all over the county. Do you drive a car that runs on gasoline? Not all of us live in the city were we can walk or ride a bike everywhere.

"Are you voting for that bush imbecil again??"

Yep. Are you still a cock n' balls that hates anyone that doesn't follow your Socialist/Internationalist view of the world? You know the Islamo-Fascists hate you too Restless. They would kill you and your family in the blink of an eye if they could. At least that imbecil and your political leaders have joined that imbecil to stand up to the terrorists.

"Feeling good??"

I'm super, thanks for asking!

Cease and desist.

Dustin

Those were all rethorical questions dummie.

"Yep. Are you still a cock n’ balls that hates anyone that doesn’t follow your Socialist/Internationalist view of the world? You know the Islamo-Fascists hate you too Restless. They would kill you and your family in the blink of an eye if they could. At least that imbecil and your political leaders have joined that imbecil to stand up to the terrorists. "

So what, fuck islamic fundamentalists and fuck all you that lost your hability to think for themselves.

Keep on killing more and more civilians and keep on wondering why does that once a kid that had his family slaughtered by one of your precision bombs hates you and is willing to strap a load of plastic explosive or TNT to himself and make things even.

The nerve these people have, you kill their family and they still are not gratefull.

And how are those 13-16 year olds that you’ve kidnapped and are holding hostge in Cuba without any kind of criminal charges.

Oh what a wonderfull thing freedom is when a greedy bloothirsty empirialistic egomaniac is allowed to override all international laws and the rest of the world just has to stand and watch.

This is what? The fifth reich?? Or is it the sixth, I forget…

Zig Heil Bush and god bless america.

My Forearm=Your Leg,
That was a terrific post!!! However, it will be lost on restless. He is a chancre on the nutsack of humanity. Don’t waste your breath on him. Remember, this is the same guy who wished that Diesel had died on 9/11. His hatred knows no bounds.
restless,
You owe your freedom to the United States of America. Not once, but many times over we have saved you. Without us, you wouldn’t be allowed to live out your miserable life on your own terms. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I laugh when I imagine you and your little friends sitting around railing against the power of the United States. Deep down, you know what I say is true. Bring that up at the next little political rally you have. I’d love to see the look on the faces of the hairy-backed, body-odor smelling, 165 pound weenies that you hang around.

restless,

I know you would prefer to have Iraqis have their throats cut from ear to ear, their women raped in front of their helpless husbands by gangs of security operatives, their testacles cut off and stuffed into their mouths, dropped off of buildings, the entire family hung for the transgressions of a single member (like mentioning in public that he didn’t care for Saddam), their fingers cut off joint by joint, their tips of their tongues or their entire tongues cut out, beheading by sword and then knife to cut the gristle, be lowered slowly and feetfirst into a giant paper shreader while their family looks on in helpless horror, be shot at point blank range with a pistol rifle or submachine gun, entire villages gassed and the survivors murdered by armored units, political dissidents used as human mine detectors, electric drills used to penetrate soft areas of the chest and abdomen, people that did not celebrate Saddam’s birthday being dropped feet-first into either large pools or small tubs of acid, beaten into permanent disfigurement or even death, being made to eat their own flesh as it was cut from their body, having electrical nodes hooked up to their testacles and shocked repeatedly, playing dominoes on the back of women who had just been kidnapped and gang-raped by government agents, breasts cut of with hand-saws or Sawzalls or those electric knives used to cut turkey, being forced to labor all day in the Iraqi 120 degree heat and then drink their own urine as they collapsed from deadly exhaustion, smaller ethnicities rounded up into refugee camps and their ancestral lands given to Saddam loyalists, “Shoot at demonstrators with the aim of killing 95 percent of them and saving the rest for interrogation” (from the Baghdad Security Headquarters), hung ten at a time for teaching the Kurdish language, guns put in the mouth of babies in their mothers arms and then discharged, beating prisoners to death and then billing the family for the labor (and then no funeral, because even if they could bribe a guard to get the remains back Saddam was known to order the gassing of the ‘illegal’ funerals of executed prisoners), having finger and toenails removed slowly with pliers, be fed small amounts of poison to cause varying degrees of internal trauma or be fed enoough poison to kill, the hands and feet whipped until all the sensitive bones are broken, the intentional application of skin diseases, be shot and stabbed in front of their children and pregnant wives for suspected membership in the FreeMasons or suspected private practice of Judaism, their children beaten severely for not participating in the traditional Saddam Birthday dancing, young women having their hair torn out by the fistful for refusing to refer to Saddam as “Papa Saddam”, their arms and legs cut off with chain saws, their soles of their feet burned with hot irons and blow torches, starving wild dogs being sicced on prisoners that are bloodied and bound hand and foot, crucifixion by nailing palms of the hands and ears to the cross, burning of the rectum with boiling water, using heavy hammers to break noses and the long bones of the limbs, be stripped naked and forced to sit on broken bottles or gas heaters, hung from a rotating ceiling fan and struck with pipes, their healthy teeth forcefully removed, their ‘criminals’ bound and forced (feet first, of course) into raging ovens while the family is forced to watch, their tongues nailed to boards as a means of restraint, their eyes sprayed with insecticides, their children stung with wasps spiders and scorpions as the parents are forced to watch, bombs set off in markets far from any military targets in order to attempt to frame the Coalition, their people routinely --sometimes just on the street at a perceived offence – burned with cigarrettes branding irons and sometimes just tossed wholesale into the fire, men and women suspended by rusty iron hooks – or in a pinch, axes driven into the wall – in their lower back for ease of torture, the people deliberately starved as a means of submission while Saddam re-sold the “Oil-for-Food” food for guns golden palaces and shiny torture chambers, electricity running water and medicine withheld systematically from Shi’a and Kurdish regions, the mentally ill handicapped or disabled elderly executed as soon as they were discovered, being imprisoned in conditions so stark (1 meter by 50 cm windowless cells) that prisoners had to fight for the right to use the central latrine pits and the victors slept at the latrine lip like dogs jealously guarding their possessions, being beat with “relay teams” of men wielding heavy electrical cords, eyes gouged out with silverware one at a time, or eyes squeezed slowly until the breaking point… The list goes on (all of the above are directly verifiable).

Now use the above methods to kill TWO MILLION human beings. TWO MILLION.

Bury them anywhere you please, restless, because at this point the bodies are in all sorts of shapes. Some are missing parts like heads and arms and jawbones and legs that are hard to relocate, so they can just be dumped in pits with the rest. Others are to be carefully photographed and then neatly buried in rows of the thousands, often after the bodies have been left to rot (but not be removed) in the city streets as a warning to other ‘criminals’. Since you have a heart, restless, you would agree with the act of cutting down the five and six year olds who were hung on lampposts (in front of their helpless weeping parents, of course) in Baghdad last year and carefully buried in small wooden caskets. But remember, restless, you can’t give these bodies back to the families under any circumstances, and of course there is the aforementioned pesky paperwork to mail the execution labor bill to the families. That is restless, if you even bother to mention the deaths to the families. Most never find out what happens to their son, or four year old daughter, or their husband, or mother.

restless, why don’t you come over here and meet my friends that I went to school with, the Christians driven from Iraq (even though you say he was quite tolerant). They can tell you some more firsthand stories about this subject, since you are so morally certain about how this war was a bad thing. They can tell you about how they are afraid to even say a bad word about Saddam from thousands of miles away, because if Saddam got wind of it their remaining family members in Iraq could be tortured, raped, and killed (see above).
Let them tell you about working (that’s where someone does a task in exchange for money) like madmen and sending their money home to Iraq each month for food and medicine for their families, and only occasionally for any of that money to make it past the various officials. Let them tell you about the brothers and uncles killed in the human wave attacks against the Iranians in a long and horrible and pointless war.

So yeah, “sieg heil Bush”, and “America is the fifth or sixth reich” tough guy, just remember that YOU are the one so RIGHTEOUSLY angry that somebody put a stop to this. Whatever the reasons, misguided or not, as long as the US keeps its word and withdraws how can you be so rabid about stopping this?

I’d think you would want to tend to your own little – less citizens in all of Portugal than Muslims living in the US – country first, lest it slip back into its habitual fascism. I’m willing to bet that the Portugese dissidents in the concentration camps circa 1970 would be opposed though.

Feeling good?

My forearm,
You make your point well (I think I am going to throw up). I don’t think anyone diagrees that Saddam was a monster. I love the US, but I do have a problem with our meddling with countries, creating dictatorships (like Iran in the 1950’s), and then acting surprised or indignant when our machinations backfire on us. Saddam was well-liked, supplied, and funded by the US for many years, with our FULL knowledge of what a beast he was. For that matter, the Bush family is close, life-long friends with the Bin Laden family, and with the Saudi royal family.

My 2 main points have been,

  1. We should have never backed Saddam in the first place. We especially shouldn’t have given him Anthrax back in 1984, and when we saw him gas his own people we should have stepped in then since we are such humanitarians.

  2. Our entire premise for attacking Iraq wasn’t what he was doing to his people, but that Iraq was an imminent threat to America. Bush had been informed by the CIA that the intel they had gathered about Iraq trying to acquire Uranium was unconfirmed, yet he told Congress that we had conclusive PROOF that they had done this. Even the CIA claims that they were quite clear to Bush about this little detail. He lied to get us to attack Iraq, also claiming that they had ties with Alqada, when that couldn’t have been further from the truth, and they knew it.

So with these to facts in mind, it really makes me question the motives of this administration. What we NEED to be doing, and what we shouldn’t have gotten away from, is tracking down Osama Bin Laden and all of his comrades. THEY are the ones who attacked the US, yet we just sorta forgot they even existed so we could go after Iraq. We should have our soldiers in a military action… Our stupid president just has us in the wrong one!

If it were truly for humanitarian reasons that we went in there, then Iraq would not have been so high in the line. Okay, maybe in the top ten, but there are plenty of other dictators who commit the long list of atrocities mentioned in Forearm’s post. For that matter, what have we done to stabalize Afghanistan since we went in there with bombs a-flaring? Nothing. This administration just shows little or no responsibility for their military might. Didn’t you watch Spiderman? “With great power comes great responsibility”… Remember?

Our mad forray into reingineering the middle east comes from a bunch of draft dodgers and deserters, sending people like my cousin and brother in law into combat. My bro-in-law actually got wounded, and is convelescing in Washington DC at the moment. At least he is alive. But they are understaffed over there, and morale is low. We went in with no exit plan… Not even a rough idea. We didn’t even accomplish the primary task of capturing Saddam, and his minions are picking our guys off right and left.

I need to find the article, and if I do I will repost it here, but there is actually talk from the Bush administration of starting up the draft again. Now wouldn’t THAT be a hoot. Rumsfeld, Delay, Cheney, Bush … all those guys got out of combat one way or another during Vietnam. Cheney managed to accrue 5 DEFERMENTS! Meanwhile people like my father and uncles served with honor and followed their orders. Does this not bother you at all?

I guess you don’t mind losing American soldiers in a pointless effort every day. I guess you don’t mind being lied to by our president about a lot more than sex. I guess you don’t mind that our gutless coward of a president has not even properly welcomed our dead soldiers as their bodies are shipped to America, has deliberately kept the fanfare low for the returning bodies (no press, etc.) and has not attended one funeral. I’m telling you, you can keep that loser president! If you like him based on all the known facts about him then you should be ashamed!

roy, are you a crystal baller? Where are you getting your information about what I think about our foreign policy?
Also, where is all that garbage about Bush and Cheney and whoever else? Who gives a shit? Where is your last paragraph coming from, and who the hell are you talking to?

Look, I wouldn’t care if restless itself ordered Saddam to be removed. Don’t try to make me feel bad about my country doing the right thing, even if it’s for the wrong reasons. There’s a big difference between your unrelated meandering anti-conservative arguments and Restless’s rabid categorically uninformed characterizations of the US as the fifth reich.

Forearm,
That is all fine and good that you feel good about freeing those people.

I wish we were still tracking Osama across the lands though. Bush used YOU and me and everyone else who was rightfully horrified over 9/11 and converted into his personal agenda.

Who gives a shit you say? Let me tell you, a LOT Of people gave a shit that Clinton unapologetically dodged the war because he didn’t believe in the V war. A lot of people give a shit that Bush blatantly neglected his duty. He went AWOL for 17 months! Cheney took deferments, all of those guys did. In other words, they all had this perception that they shouldn’t fight because they are a bunch of fucking blue bloods. Let us grunts fight their wars for them. They were too good for service, or to afraid. If character issues like that don’t effect you, then I truly pity you.

Nice vomitting inducing post forearm.

I’m no historian or economist but post WWII didn’t the aid and reconstruction efforts and help that the US gave to Germany and Japan boast their economies? Through the Marshall Plan and concessions of trade policy (like allowing Germany and Japan to be protectionist and not fully complying with exchange rates), their respective economies boomed and they became the US’s largest trade partners. Could the same situation occur in Iraq and generally the middle east? If we reduce the turmoil in the region, promote self-directed democratic governments, allow the Iraqi’s to have substantial input on reconstruction efforts, and prevent extremists controls, could they become an economic mecca of sorts? Could the become the historical equivellant of Germany and Japan post WWI?

Personally, I think yes. Removing Saddam and freeing the Iraqi’s is a step in the right direction. But then again, I’m no expert and would rather be squatting…

Oh my god. I go away for a little while and this thread is resurrected.

Ok I will be foolish and chime in.

It is so obvious that we live in the television era. War must be resolved in 60 minutes, with commercial breaks.

I think WWII took a little longer then that.

Bush’s mention of WMD was AFTER he has approval from congress.

Dose anyone here realize that the only reason the Democrats are complaining about the war is that it is the only way to win against Bush in 2004? Why did Clinton make the exact same claims against Saddam as Bush, and spoke for his removal, but all of a sudden he say’s it is the wrong thing to do?

Politics.

Then the lovely statements that anyone who disagrees with a certain person is “brainwashed” by the media. Interestingly he does not state where he gets his “facts” from. Everybody needs to understand that there is no such of a thing as an unbiased source of news, or information. It is so nice to complain about our media, assuming theirs is perfect. (This includes newspapers and the internet also.)

Right now the attacks are focusing on the Iraqi people. They are attacking their own people.

If anyone remembers Bush declared war against terrorism. Saddam was a terrorist, and supported terrorists. Who here supports terrorism? Personally I would like to get rid of terrorism, wouldn’t you?

Does anyone here argue against Saddam being a terrible person? Does anyone disagree with getting rid of him? Why? What great things did he do?

I keep hearing that one of the reasons we are hated in the Mid-East is because we supported people like Saddam. Well why would people get upset when we do the opposite and get rid of him? “Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t”

I recognize that people hate war. I hate war also. But I believe this is the best course of action. We ignored terrorism for years, and it bit us in the ass. If we do nothing now it will just get worse.

As far as the Iraq and al Qaeda link, check out this link to the Wall Street Journal. Yes it is opinion, but it lists actual connections.

This is from September 22, 2003.

Now I will be MIA again for a while, so go ahead and attack me. But I recommend that if people want to keep discussing this, they start a new thread, maybe “Hell Yeah War cont…”

roy batty,
Your response was stunning. Even after Forearm’s moving post. You put party above basic humanity. That is reprehensible. I guarantee your outlook would be drastically different if your family members had suffered those horrendous atrocities.
Run and hide, roy. We will do the fighting for you. We are doing the right thing.
By the way, people like you are sending the democrats the way of the Whigs!!! Please keep up your specious arguments. You are going to keep losing.

Invading Iraq without broad international support was a bad idea, and now it is biting George Bush in the ass. The administration doesn’t know what to do, they are CLUELESS.

The only plan now is to hurry up and get as many US troops back home before the presidential election.

Being against the war is not “politics” it is common sense. Invading Iraq is already costing us 200 BILLION.

It is also creating a bigger terrorism problem. Even Rumsefeld hinted that he knew that was true. We are creating a whole new generation of terrorists.

Iraq is Bush’s Viet Nam.

To the comment that Iraqis are mostly killing other Iraqis, that is not true. This past November was the deadliest month yet for US troops. There is an average 130 attacks on US troops every day.

right or wrong the war is happening - now its best to find the best course of action, as the Bush admin hasn’t the slightest clue.

At least Powell is urging NATO forces to come in and take some of the fire.

What should matter is to find out if the Bush admin knowingly lied to the public & congress to gain support.

Its obvious what they presented as intelligence was totally false.

Could the country with the most technically advanced methods of surveillance and who throws billions into intelligence really get it THAT wrong?

Bush= lying weak coward

US-GG, republicans in 1992 looked very fragmented and were thought to be headed toward the whigs. look at them now. i doubt the dem party is gonna fall apart as you predict.

Kuri: regarding the intelligence. Yes. We could get it that wrong. Mostly because our intelligence services have been drastically dismantled. A great deal of our intelligence is second and third hand. For instance the yellow-cake deal? We knew it was false. However, France knew of another deal that actually did involve uranium and Iraq. Why didn’t we get anything on it? Because France disclosed it to Britain on the condition that they not disclose any great deal of it to the U.S. Hence, we knew of some shady dealings but because our intelligence and surveillance of friendly nations was weak we’ll probably never know what the real deal was.

(Yes friendlies spy on each other all the time. Believe it or not the vast majority of gov’t sponsored espionage is for industrial reasons. Very nice, eh? Read up on information warfare, it’s an interesting topic and leads into all sorts of neat stuff, like Calculus.)

We’re going to lock this thread up. Nine months is long enough. Feel free to continue your arguments via PM’s.