Health Care is Not a Right

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

If you are believe he should be treated so strongly, what have you actually done to accomplish that?

Besides, I’m not aware of a non-3rd world country that would turn away someone like that.[/quote]

My question was simple: do you think he should be treated, or not?[/quote]

Unless I partake in the process, I don’t think it my right to say anything.

If you didn’t become a doctor and therefore cannot help him it is the same result if a person in a position to offer aid refuses it.[/quote]

There is so much logically wrong with this that I don’t even know where to begin. “Unless I partake in the process, I don’t have a right to say anything?” Then please never volunteer an opinion on any matter in which you are not directly affecting someone or being affected by someone…ever again. [As a side note, you DO partake in the process by helping to pay for it]

But you can avoid answering if you want bro, because if you say yes…which is what any good person would do… it will mean that you believe that people have a right to health care.

Any answer other than an unequivocal yes to the question makes you a real scumbag. And not a Christian, by the way.[/quote]

No, you are confused. There is a huge gap between should and “I have the right to force someone to”.

If you are a Christian, you must believe that people shouldn’t be gay, that means, using your logic, you are in favor of banning homosexuality.

I do think the boy should be treated. I do not think I have the right to pull a gun on a doctor and make him do it.

Healthcare is not a right. A right cannot be derived from the services of others.

22

Nothing is a right unless it is agreed upon to be so by a body of power that is also enable to enforce said right. If memory serves, the Declaration of Independence starts thus : ’ We hold these truths to be…’ And that is all we do.

23

A person of any age will be treated in any ER around these United States of America. No questions asked!! This does not mean the treatment will be free. In fact the debt may follow an adult for a number or years. However if the loops and hoops are jumped through, you can get substantial help from the current systems. A child would have very little in funds owed, even if the parents are broke. Now if the parents just want free help, expect garnishment, I would presume ; ) Nothing for free in my eyes, as a gimp lol

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

24

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

Yes he should, but it is neither the responsibility nor right of the Fed Gov’t to pay for it.

25

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Money is fungible. If you give them money for food, they simply take the money they are then not spending for food and buy cigarettes or alcohol or drugs or anything else they want. They problem is not what they spend the money on, but the fact they did nothing to earn the money.

26

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

If you are believe he should be treated so strongly, what have you actually done to accomplish that?

Besides, I’m not aware of a non-3rd world country that would turn away someone like that.[/quote]

My question was simple: do you think he should be treated, or not?[/quote]

Unless I partake in the process, I don’t think it my right to say anything.

If you didn’t become a doctor and therefore cannot help him it is the same result if a person in a position to offer aid refuses it.[/quote]

There is so much logically wrong with this that I don’t even know where to begin. “Unless I partake in the process, I don’t have a right to say anything?” Then please never volunteer an opinion on any matter in which you are not directly affecting someone or being affected by someone…ever again. [As a side note, you DO partake in the process by helping to pay for it]

But you can avoid answering if you want bro, because if you say yes…which is what any good person would do… it will mean that you believe that people have a right to health care.

Any answer other than an unequivocal yes to the question makes you a real scumbag. And not a Christian, by the way.[/quote]

Flawed reasoning.

Believing that he should be helped and believing that he has a right to be helped is not the same.

27

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

Is this more propaganda from the left? Surely you’re not serious. No one has ever been turned down for emergency care in a US hospital. We are not a third world country.

28

[quote]ZEB wrote:

When you take money from someone who earned it and give it to someone who did not earn it you harm both the person you took it from and the person that you gave it to.

[/quote]

ZEB, don’t you agree that, if you make a lot of money, you should help out those less fortunate than yourself? Almost to create an equal base for all of us? That way we have the ability to pull from the same amount, monetarily speaking? Obviously, this would be given that those receiving funds are indeed making proper choices in their lives with the money they hvae, and it just so happens that they were not as fortunate as others.

29

[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?

I am certainly not for seeing kids starve and would be very reticent to abruptly take the money away. But I do think if the recipient had to actually do something for that money they would both appreciate it more and also maybe find some work that they actually like doing better, however menial.

Certainly that is reasonable. We have to find a way to break this entitlement mentality.

30

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

Is this more propaganda from the left? Surely you’re not serious. No one has ever been turned down for emergency care in a US hospital. We are not a third world country.[/quote]

Exactly. And no one ever should be. Which is, in practice, the same as everyone having a right to health care.

Call it what you want: rights, obligations privileges. An affluent society should see to the basic health needs of its citizens. End of story.

31

I think the government should be able to assign homeless people as roommates for citizens who already have shelter. Don’t you folks want people to be inside out of the elements away from crime on the streets?

32

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?

[/quote]

I would fully support such a measure.

33

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?

[/quote]

I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]

It’d be cool if we could pick them up at local welfare offices to do housework and such.

34

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
The problem is not what they spend the money on, but the fact they did nothing to earn the money.
[/quote]

BINGO!

35

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Money is fungible. If you give them money for food, they simply take the money they are then not spending for food and buy cigarettes or alcohol or drugs or anything else they want. They problem is not what they spend the money on, but the fact they did nothing to earn the money.
[/quote]

EBT food benefits are not fungible.

36

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Well, I actually think that’s a step in the right direction. But how about this; instead of simply handing people on welfare free money how about they have to stop in at the local office and sweep floors, rake, shovel snow, wash dishes, or maybe just sit in a room and make a list of what skills they have to offer the work place?

[/quote]

I would fully support such a measure.[/quote]

It’d be cool if we could pick them up at local welfare offices to do housework and such.[/quote]

I think we would benefit tremendously from having them work for free for a while, in some capacity or another (not really for free, because they would be getting food or health services or whatever out of it).

Skills would build, connections would be made, good references acquired. It couldn’t hurt.

37

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

Is this more propaganda from the left? Surely you’re not serious. No one has ever been turned down for emergency care in a US hospital. We are not a third world country.[/quote]

Exactly. And no one ever should be. Which is, in practice, the same as everyone having a right to health care.

Call it what you want: rights, obligations privileges. An affluent society should see to the basic health needs of its citizens. End of story.[/quote]

Really, I think an affluent society should give everyone a pony and I would like a blowjob from Jessica Alba.

End of story.

If could send me some of your Dads money to get that done, hell no, you will fucking send me one third of your paycheck from here on till eternity, or else I will throw you into a cage or simply take what is yours and auction it off.

Please dont resist, I might have to kill you if you do.

38

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I understand what you’re saying but I also understand human nature quite well. And I think that your system can be played just as easily as the US when it comes to those who want to live off the government dole. If someone is rewarded enough for doing nothing that’s exactly what they’ll keep on doing.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I just think we should do our utmost to stop people from playing the system, rather than simply doing away with it.

For example: if you are on food stamps, your license is electronically marked and you are entirely prohibited from buying cigarettes and alcohol. It’s not going to solve the problem, but little things like that can add up.[/quote]

Money is fungible. If you give them money for food, they simply take the money they are then not spending for food and buy cigarettes or alcohol or drugs or anything else they want. They problem is not what they spend the money on, but the fact they did nothing to earn the money.
[/quote]

EBT food benefits are not fungible.[/quote]

Says you.

39

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Do you people believe that if a child comes into an emergency room with a bullet in his chest, and he does not have health coverage, and his parents will never be able to pay for medical procedures, he should be turned away?[/quote]

Is this more propaganda from the left? Surely you’re not serious. No one has ever been turned down for emergency care in a US hospital. We are not a third world country.[/quote]

Exactly. And no one ever should be. Which is, in practice, the same as everyone having a right to health care.

Call it what you want: rights, obligations privileges. An affluent society should see to the basic health needs of its citizens. End of story.[/quote]

Really, I think an affluent society should give everyone a pony and I would like a blowjob from Jessica Alba.

End of story.

If could send me some of your Dads money to get that done, hell no, you will fucking send me one third of your paycheck from here on till eternity, or else I will throw you into a cage or simply take what is yours and auction it off.

Please dont resist, I might have to kill you if you do.

[/quote]

Yep, because basic health services are analogous to a pony and a blowjob from Jessica Alba.

40

[quote]orion wrote:

Says you.
[/quote]

Says the definition of EBT food benefits.

You can get around it by buying someone else food with your EBT card and selling it to them for cash. It isn’t easy though.