How long before you see the benefits in your testicles from HCG?
I tried 200iu EOD for 1600iu so far (1.5 weeks for the slow ones). My boys are about half normal size.
How long should pass, before you introduce a change if the desired results are not produced?
B0nzz
If you started hCG during the cycle, how long were you “on” before you started? If you waited until the end, how long was your cycle? What compounds are/were you running?
This is towards the end of my cycle.
I am about 17 weeks in. I am going to run another bottle of test enth (3 weeks), then change and taper off with cyp and then the wait game till pct.
My usage is very moderate as well. Test 150mg, EQ 200mg and Dec200mg E3D is what I have been doing for the last month. I just upped EQ from 150 and Deca is just for my joints…
In the past I have run 5,000iu from weeks 4 to 6 and another 5,000 in weeks 10 to 12. both times I ran a little over 500iu EOD.
That worked great but this time i am trying 200 EOD and as I said my nuts cam back about 1/2 size in a week and a half.
I am just wondering how long it takes before I should change the amount if the desired results are not achieved. Just trying to see if my body will work just as well with 200 or if I need to go back to what I know works. I am trying my damnedest not the always think more is better…
I cant find the time it takes from injection to absorption to full benefits. EQ, test enth/cyp and Deca are the ones I always wondered about. If someone could answer all those that would be great. I figured I would start with HCG…
B0nzz
from the standpoint of HRT docs (not exactly related i know)…they will typically say give it several monbths at a low dose to restore testicular size…so perhaps just patience. I have also heard of guys combining low dose hcg with low dose hmg when particularly problematic…this seems to work wonders.
I typically find HCG to have an almost immediate effect. Like, starting the next day. Even when I let my testicles atrophy to a fairly significant degree I almost always feel fully back to speed by about a week and a half.
I use around 250mcg/E3D.
Cortes, I know I can tell a differenc in my wood in the next day or
so but wasn’t sure about my nuts.
I will go up another 50 eod and see what happens.
Any idea about the timing on the others listed? I am trying the low
end of the scale on dosage to save gear but if i don’t see a change
in 6 weeks then make a change I wanted to know if I waited long
enough or can I change after 4 weeks. It seems if I just go to the avg
I may actually save gear because there isn’t that trial period but if 300mg
Of eq works just as good for me I’m wasting the other 100mg’s…
Thanks
B0nzz
Without giving us too much information, where’d you get you HCG? Is it pharm grade of UGL HCG? If it’s the latter, then that may be your problem. I use a Chinese “brand name” HCG and even low doses of it work great.
As for the second thing, you’ve been on a pretty long cycle, man, I think the time to experiment is probably over at this point. Why not come off, do your PCT, take a couple months to recover, and then run a shorter cycle at a higher dosage to see how it affects you?
Cortes,
It’s Pharm…they even have testimonials on the site (hahahahahahah)
I stayed on a little linger then I planned, my guy got popped and I had to find another and he is bringing in my PCT in the next couple of weeks. I hard lesson learned about getting everything upfront…
I was getting a bottle a week so I was about a month ahead and when I called him for PCT no answer, so I went to my Plan B and he only had gear and nothing for PCT. After talking to him for a while he was trying to talk me into a year round cycle by switching up the test and changing the secondary (changing between EQ, Dec and tren). He even said at one point I read too much and should stop…fuck’en made me laugh… I was doing above and still seeing nice slow gains and good fat loss but enough is enough… Ill quit while I’m ahead… Bill R has said allot about diminished returns and I am on the low end of use and haven’t hit that point yet but I want to stop while I’m ahead.
For PCT I thought I would taper off with Test cyp then
PCT:
Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20mgs/day
5 20mgs/day
6 20mgs/day
I know the general consence here is no HGC for PCT but Meso changed my mind last minute with this
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm
I know you have to be careful what you read but between you, JJ/Bill and Morepain (although I don’t see much of him lately) you all make a lot of sense and your words have a lot of weight… I’m still about 3-4 weeks away so I still have a chance to change it up.
What are your thoughts…
[quote]B0nzz wrote:
I know the general consence here is no HGC for PCT but Meso changed my mind last minute with this
…
I know you have to be careful what you read but between you, JJ/Bill and Morepain (although I don’t see much of him lately) you all make a lot of sense and your words have a lot of weight… I’m still about 3-4 weeks away so I still have a chance to change it up.
What are your thoughts…[/quote]
I clicked off when I saw who the author is. Have you read Dr. Crisler’s (aka SWALE) hCG protocol? He suggests using hCG while on cycle and stopping within a week after the cycle ends. I am pretty sure Bill Roberts recommends something at least similar, but I don’t have a quote for you at the moment. I think Bill Roberts is one of the few experts we have who really knows what he’s talking about and I’ve developed a sense of trust and credibility when it comes to his advice.
Here is an excerpt from the Crisler protocol I mentioned:
[quote]I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary–hopefully)…
… If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle.
… I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery…[/quote]
Maybe try bumping it up to 250IU ED until the end of the cycle and see how it goes? It would be interesting to see what Bill Roberts has to say if he stops by this thread.
As for the orignal prob (my nuts). The wife says they are almost there. I went up to
400iu’s every 3 days. I think I didn’t wait enough and got jumpy but they should be
Back to their normal size by the begining of the week.
As for pct, I also read Crisler, they all make good fights.
Now my orig pct was
Wk. What. How much
Nol. 40
2-6 Nol. 20
4-5. Clomid. 50
I am going to revisit Crisler, I assumed I would just add 3-4 extra weeks on the
Middle because my cycle was so long, do you agree? Amost all pct’s I see are for 8-12
Wk cycles and are for 6 weeks so am I to assume pct will take half the time of the cycle?
Personal experience only. I was on t for 16 weeks testes shrank pretty bad, then started 200iu hcg eod. The effect was almost the next day if not day 2. I have been on t and cycle in other anabolics throughout the year as well.
The only problem i have seen, as in my other post, the hcg made my estrogen go way up. Even with adex i lost libido and had some ED and experienced water retention from the e.
So now i have stopped the hcg eod until my e drops back down. Id say just keep a close eye on it. I know that 200 EOD on hcg is what everyone uses, and it DID bring my testes back, but after a couple weeks my E was going up up up.
Dunno if this helped but good luck.
Thanks for the help guys.
The wife says were back to normal so I was going to drop back down to 200 2x a week just to spread it out whats left.
I got my hands on some kefei blue tops and am going to have fun with these…
““Says to his wife 18wks ago””
I swear hun, im only goiung to try a little test and maybe eq, just to get those last couple lbs off, maybe a little size…
B0nzz