Can HCG really keep someone who is on Testosterone replacement therapy fertile?
My understanding is that HCG mimics the effects of lutenizing Hormone (LH).
According to information Ive seen on the male reporoductive system online and information I have read on Pubmed, LH only stimulates the Leydig cells which then convert LH into testosterone.
Sperm is produced by the Sertoli cells (as can be seen on the diagram in this link).
The sertoli cells are stimulated by Folical Stimulating Hormone (FSH) in combination with testosterone.
Correct me if I am wrong but if HCG does not stimulate FSH production, nor does it mimic its effect how can it help a man maintain a fertile state when he has no FSH circulating?
I noticed people on forums such as T Nation and other suggest using HCG to maintain fertility which seems to me to be impossible without FSH.
Yep, I just saw KSmans response to your post catfish74. SERMS make sense, I tried Clomid as a TRT alternative medication when I wanted to conceive my last child. My libido went down the drain at the time, but my FSH and LH levels went through the roof, my sperm count also went through the roof on Clomid, suggesting that I was secondary. Clomid tends to have more side effects that Tamoxifen from my experience. I am back on TRT now and have been for over 1 year but my quality of sleep has become very poor. I will post a more specific thread about insomnia and TRT once I get my blood test results back in the coming weeks.
If you are primary, then SERMS probably will not help because your body may not be able to convert the FSH and LH which Tamoxifen stimulates from the piturity into Testosterone, Inhibin and sperm. Having said that, if you had kids previously then Tamoxifen should hopefuly restore you to your previous level of fertility which may be sufficient.
My question to KSman, can FSH and LH be restored to pre TRT treatment levels (or higher) with Tamoxifen whilst maintaining a TRT protocol? My doctor insisted I get off the testogel whilst using Clomid to restore fertility but I did not get an answer as to if it was possible to restore fertility whilst staying on testosterone.
I’ve done some more digging around…from the studies I read (pubmed linked stuff over at allthingsmale - Crisler’s site) it seems that if you’ve been on HCG while on TRT (as I have, except for a brief period) that I should be OK. Also, like KSMAN said, Nolva seems to be the SERM of choice when trying to get counts up. Now with that being said, we literally just started, so I’m probably not going to change anything up at this point, or even bother with getting a semen analysis done at this point. If we’ve not had any luck in a few months, then I’ll look into some changes.
If a user has been on HCG the whole time he was on TRT, perhaps FSH levels will remain in range. However, for users who have been on TRT for months or years and only just recently started HCG, then they may have a more challenging time trying to get their FSH levels up using a HCG protocol.
Catfish, if you could share the Pubmed study you referred to that would be great, also post an update once you have more information or decide to change your protocol.
I for one don’t want to “switch” from TRT to Clomid again when my wife and I try and conceive the next time, it was a nightmare the last time and I am interested in learning how one can get FSH levels up (without HMG because I can’t get my hands on it) whilst remaining on TRT.
I use Test Undeconate, 125mg weekly which should put about 11mg of Test into blood (Undeconate is approx 64% test and 36% undeconate).
I am not currently using HCG because I have had problems with insomnia, and am trying to minimise the moving parts to figure out whats wrong.
I read a lot of stuff on T Nation about adrenal fatigue which didn’t provide a solution. After ruling out Thyroid with blood panels that came back normal (4:1 ratio of T4 to T3 and both in the middle of the range), I figures that cortisol was the culprit.
I found a study from Italy that gave patients DHEA to monitor its effect on Cortisol and the study concluded that DHEA lower cortisol.
Since I have initially had the insomnia problem, I have had no problems falling asleep, however I usually wake up 2-3 hours later wide away and can’t sleep from that point onwards.
From what I understand about cortisol it normally spikes at around 8am (sorry not allowed to post link to article), to get you out of bed. This in my mind made sense, because the feeling I was getting when I woke up at 3-4am was that I was totally awake and unable to sleep even though I was exhausted.
So anyway, last night was the litmus test, I added 25mg of DHEA to my TRT protocol, and low and behold, I slept on the very 1st night in attempting to blunt the cortisol response.
If you google it, you will find some studies that show that DHEA blunts cortisol action, apparently progesterone does the same (might be an idea for women).