Hate Crime.

Off Topic
81

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
^ I’m not sure how Rare it is, but I can understand how a family who feels they are not getting the investigative attention they need for a lost loved one can turn the focus to something that will and can receive Federal Law Enforcement action.

And this is one of the main reasons Hate Crime Laws bug me so. Race, sexual orientation, religious belief can play a part in a crime without it being the main reason the person was killed.

Not all racists are murderers.
Not all Murders involving Different races are race related.

Police are human they can fuck up like anyone else. I do wish victims families had better options other than federal involvement to make sure the police are following the same check list for all crimes that lead to fatalities.

[/quote]

It is a law about the mental intent of a person committing a crime which is completely unknowable.[/quote]

(Typing this on an iPad sucks, the quotes get mixed up)

Is it “Completely” unknowable or just hard to determine? I see the action of the law as being unfair. Does my loved one deserve less attention by law enforcement because all parties involved shared the same beliefs, color and sexual orientation?[/quote]

The only evidence you have is what the criminal says they were thinking. what actually went on is entirely unknowable. A white guy could kill a black guy and be a lifelong KKK member and claimed to have been racially motivated when he was really just trying to impress other KKK guys. Or many times a person may be mad and decide to hate someone first, then invent a reason after. It’s a dumb law. Period.[/quote]

Mens rea is required for many crimes in the US. Only a few are completely excluded from this determination…statutory rape for one.
[/quote]

Are you implying that killing someone for something not racially motivated is less of a “guilty mind”? Mens rea is unrelated to the specifics of the discussion.[/quote]

No just suggesting that debating a criminal’s thoughts is common in US law and in this case one frame of mind has been legislated to have a harsher penalty than another. Now it might be fair to argue(and I believe this as well) that all murder is equally foul, however to say its not fair to debate or try to prove someone’s state of mind, that I disagree with. I think hate crime law should be gotten rid of, however I don’t see a problem with trying to prove someone’s state of mind to get a harsher penalty.
[/quote]

Sorry, I was editing that post when you quoted me. See below:

What we are discussing isn’t about culpability, nor is it altering the definition of a crime Murder is murder. Intentionally killing is intentional killing. Culpability isn’t in question.

It is reasonable to assume a fully functional adult knows that shooting someone in the head in cold blood is murder. It is not reasonable to assume a specific adult did it for a specific reason isolated to a specific racial variable of the victim.[/quote]

Pretty much I am in agreement with you I think all punishment for cold blooded murder should be harsh. I just would go for the harsher punishment and try to prove the mental state if it were possible as it is now.
[/quote]

The question I always find myself asking in reference to hate crime law is, “if increased penalties for racial related crimes is a deterrent for such crime, why not apply the stricter penalties for all similar crime regardless of race and prevent all versions of the crime?” [/quote]

That’s wishful thinking. We’d love to prevent crime through stricter laws, but I doubt it would deter a jobless man with nowhere else to turn to and with the means to, to pick pockets and rob small grocery stores.

Some criminals aren’t cold-blooded. It’s not popular to think that yes, some criminals can even be “good hearted”, just really stuck between a rock and a hard place with their governments doing little to help them put bread on the table. And I agree with at least trying to establish the frame of mind a suspect is in, that way, a more suitable punishment can be handed down.
[/quote]

Can you expand on that last point. Are we talking about Emotion or Intent?

82

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
^ I’m not sure how Rare it is, but I can understand how a family who feels they are not getting the investigative attention they need for a lost loved one can turn the focus to something that will and can receive Federal Law Enforcement action.

And this is one of the main reasons Hate Crime Laws bug me so. Race, sexual orientation, religious belief can play a part in a crime without it being the main reason the person was killed.

Not all racists are murderers.
Not all Murders involving Different races are race related.

Police are human they can fuck up like anyone else. I do wish victims families had better options other than federal involvement to make sure the police are following the same check list for all crimes that lead to fatalities.

[/quote]

It is a law about the mental intent of a person committing a crime which is completely unknowable.[/quote]

(Typing this on an iPad sucks, the quotes get mixed up)

Is it “Completely” unknowable or just hard to determine? I see the action of the law as being unfair. Does my loved one deserve less attention by law enforcement because all parties involved shared the same beliefs, color and sexual orientation?[/quote]

The only evidence you have is what the criminal says they were thinking. what actually went on is entirely unknowable. A white guy could kill a black guy and be a lifelong KKK member and claimed to have been racially motivated when he was really just trying to impress other KKK guys. Or many times a person may be mad and decide to hate someone first, then invent a reason after. It’s a dumb law. Period.[/quote]

Mens rea is required for many crimes in the US. Only a few are completely excluded from this determination…statutory rape for one.
[/quote]

Are you implying that killing someone for something not racially motivated is less of a “guilty mind”? Mens rea is unrelated to the specifics of the discussion.[/quote]

No just suggesting that debating a criminal’s thoughts is common in US law and in this case one frame of mind has been legislated to have a harsher penalty than another. Now it might be fair to argue(and I believe this as well) that all murder is equally foul, however to say its not fair to debate or try to prove someone’s state of mind, that I disagree with. I think hate crime law should be gotten rid of, however I don’t see a problem with trying to prove someone’s state of mind to get a harsher penalty.
[/quote]

Sorry, I was editing that post when you quoted me. See below:

What we are discussing isn’t about culpability, nor is it altering the definition of a crime Murder is murder. Intentionally killing is intentional killing. Culpability isn’t in question.

It is reasonable to assume a fully functional adult knows that shooting someone in the head in cold blood is murder. It is not reasonable to assume a specific adult did it for a specific reason isolated to a specific racial variable of the victim.[/quote]

Pretty much I am in agreement with you I think all punishment for cold blooded murder should be harsh. I just would go for the harsher punishment and try to prove the mental state if it were possible as it is now.
[/quote]

The question I always find myself asking in reference to hate crime law is, “if increased penalties for racial related crimes is a deterrent for such crime, why not apply the stricter penalties for all similar crime regardless of race and prevent all versions of the crime?” [/quote]

That’s wishful thinking. We’d love to prevent crime through stricter laws, but I doubt it would deter a jobless man with nowhere else to turn to and with the means to, to pick pockets and rob small grocery stores.

Some criminals aren’t cold-blooded. It’s not popular to think that yes, some criminals can even be “good hearted”, just really stuck between a rock and a hard place with their governments doing little to help them put bread on the table. And I agree with at least trying to establish the frame of mind a suspect is in, that way, a more suitable punishment can be handed down.
[/quote]

Can you expand on that last point. Are we talking about Emotion or Intent?
[/quote]

Intent. Emotion is fleeting and is easier to manufacture to sway a judge/jury. Intent is also more likely to be “given” by the evidence gathered. (Premeditated acts, etc…)

83

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.

The police are investigating all leads and I heard on the radio this morning that they have leads that indicate that it wasn’t a hate crime at all.

… So, why would someone single out a mother, in her home, and beat her to death? If this was a hate crime wouldn’t you pick someone who was walking around in traditional attire or on their way to worship? Why would you break into this particular lady’s home? It just doesn’t make sense when you really think about the details of the crime.

We have a LOT of Muslims here and a LOT of them wear their traditional garments. We have a lot not just from the Middle East but also from northern Africa. They walk around all day, go to school, go to the gym, shop, etc wearing this and nobody attacks any of them. But they pick out this mother out of all of the other people in the community, all the other easy targets, all the other people just walking around, and leave a note? Why would you risk being caught like that if you just wanted to kill a Muslim? I don’t think you would.

[/quote]

A better articulated statement of my hunch.

The whole “note” thing smells like a red herring to this cynical lawyer.

84

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.

The police are investigating all leads and I heard on the radio this morning that they have leads that indicate that it wasn’t a hate crime at all.

… So, why would someone single out a mother, in her home, and beat her to death? If this was a hate crime wouldn’t you pick someone who was walking around in traditional attire or on their way to worship? Why would you break into this particular lady’s home? It just doesn’t make sense when you really think about the details of the crime.

We have a LOT of Muslims here and a LOT of them wear their traditional garments. We have a lot not just from the Middle East but also from northern Africa. They walk around all day, go to school, go to the gym, shop, etc wearing this and nobody attacks any of them. But they pick out this mother out of all of the other people in the community, all the other easy targets, all the other people just walking around, and leave a note? Why would you risk being caught like that if you just wanted to kill a Muslim? I don’t think you would.

[/quote]

A better articulated statement of my hunch.

The whole “note” thing smells like a red herring to this cynical lawyer.[/quote]

I concur. My money is on the husband.

85

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
This is horrible. I hope they catch and fry the bastard who did this to that poor woman. I don’t understand some people’s attitudes toward immigrants. My girlfriend and I have both experienced this attitude (I am Russian originally and she is Indian), not to this extent though and it is very upsetting, especially considering that I am now a US citizen and she is close to being one. We have both been told many times that we “should go back to where we came from.” [/quote]

That type of attitude is fucking disgusting. My own grandmother says shit like this. The irony of course is that she herself immigrated here postwar, from Germany right after her dad got out of Russian Gulag. The most racist, negative person I know. A wonderful person otherwise. But sometimes I feel like telling her, “Your dad was a Nazi. You might wanta not perpetuate that stereotype.”

I feel that in many ways a blatantly alarmist right wing media (i.e. Fox) can be held accountable for these types of sentiments. Remember the reactions to the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? Private property. Yet Fox proliferated the whole “kick in the nuts” that Islam had delivered. Countless times I’d hear people say shit that basically equates to " They are plotting our destruction in those mosques". Fucking retards. And then the whole illegal immigrant shit. Fuck you their human beings. Bastard Faux-Nazi cocksuckers

86

I think that America’s doing alright in general.

I mean after September 11th I don’t recall any “backlash” against Muslims and people seemed to be pretty focused on just getting the radicals.

Heck, only 7 years after those events and the US has a president with an uncommn Muslim-sounding name.

I think that America acted incredibly responsible after 9/11.

Sure some people can make it look bad by doing things like what may have happened in the article, but there were whole movies based on the US going nuts after similar terrorist acts (like The Seige) and sure the war in Iraq is a result of the events of 9/11 but on the whole I think the US took that dreadful blow on 9/11 with stength and dignity.

87

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
This is horrible. I hope they catch and fry the bastard who did this to that poor woman. I don’t understand some people’s attitudes toward immigrants. My girlfriend and I have both experienced this attitude (I am Russian originally and she is Indian), not to this extent though and it is very upsetting, especially considering that I am now a US citizen and she is close to being one. We have both been told many times that we “should go back to where we came from.” [/quote]

That type of attitude is fucking disgusting. My own grandmother says shit like this. The irony of course is that she herself immigrated here postwar, from Germany right after her dad got out of Russian Gulag. The most racist, negative person I know. A wonderful person otherwise. But sometimes I feel like telling her, “Your dad was a Nazi. You might wanta not perpetuate that stereotype.”

I feel that in many ways a blatantly alarmist right wing media (i.e. Fox) can be held accountable for these types of sentiments. Remember the reactions to the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? Private property. Yet Fox proliferated the whole “kick in the nuts” that Islam had delivered. Countless times I’d hear people say shit that basically equates to " They are plotting our destruction in those mosques". Fucking retards. And then the whole illegal immigrant shit. Fuck you their human beings. Bastard Faux-Nazi cocksuckers[/quote]
Islamic symbolism aside, do you suggest we just say fuck it, drop all immigration policy and just see what happens?

88

[quote]El Cajon police continue to stress that the possibility of a hate crime is only one avenue they are pursuing, and that they believe the attack to be an isolated incident.

A neighbor told police a dark-skinned man was seen running from the house, according to police records obtained by KFMB/Channel 8. Family members have said in media interviews that a similar note had been found weeks earlier posted on their front door, but they did not notify police.

If the death is determined to be a hate crime, it would be highly unusual.

Of the county?s 136 hate crimes reported in 2010, El Cajon police reported one, according to data gathered by the state Attorney General?s Office. None was reported in 2009, one in 2008 and one in 2007.

The city and surrounding areas are home to the nation?s second-largest Iraqi population, believed to be 50,000 to 60,000 strong, of both Muslims and Chaldeans.

?We don?t see a lot of hate crime out here,? El Cajon police Lt. Mark Coit said. ?This community is really melded together as people, not as different cultures.?[/quote]

Excerpt from this news story:

89

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]El Cajon police continue to stress that the possibility of a hate crime is only one avenue they are pursuing, and that they believe the attack to be an isolated incident.

A neighbor told police a dark-skinned man was seen running from the house, according to police records obtained by KFMB/Channel 8. Family members have said in media interviews that a similar note had been found weeks earlier posted on their front door, but they did not notify police.

If the death is determined to be a hate crime, it would be highly unusual.

Of the county?s 136 hate crimes reported in 2010, El Cajon police reported one, according to data gathered by the state Attorney General?s Office. None was reported in 2009, one in 2008 and one in 2007.

The city and surrounding areas are home to the nation?s second-largest Iraqi population, believed to be 50,000 to 60,000 strong, of both Muslims and Chaldeans.

?We don?t see a lot of hate crime out here,? El Cajon police Lt. Mark Coit said. ?This community is really melded together as people, not as different cultures.?[/quote]

Excerpt from this news story:

[/quote]

I hate to laugh but when I read that last line “We don’t have alot of Hate crimes” haha wow, I know he means the Legal Tearm of Hate Crimes. But most violent crime is a Hate Crime.

I know beating a dead horse it just sounds so odd.

90

No not at all. I just think it would be better if we re-addressed the way we respond to illegal immigration. People are going to come here illegally, I think, whether a percentage of citizens agree with it or not. In many states we grant them access to education, welfare, access to a number of other programs designated “reserved” for U.S. citizens/legal immigrants, etc.

That being said, I wasn’t really commenting on immigration policy. Just how in some cases some responses to illegal immigration could be more human and less political. Fuck, I’ve gotta go write for Bill Maher now.

91

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
This is horrible. I hope they catch and fry the bastard who did this to that poor woman. I don’t understand some people’s attitudes toward immigrants. My girlfriend and I have both experienced this attitude (I am Russian originally and she is Indian), not to this extent though and it is very upsetting, especially considering that I am now a US citizen and she is close to being one. We have both been told many times that we “should go back to where we came from.” [/quote]

That type of attitude is fucking disgusting. My own grandmother says shit like this. The irony of course is that she herself immigrated here postwar, from Germany right after her dad got out of Russian Gulag. The most racist, negative person I know. A wonderful person otherwise. But sometimes I feel like telling her, “Your dad was a Nazi. You might wanta not perpetuate that stereotype.”

I feel that in many ways a blatantly alarmist right wing media (i.e. Fox) can be held accountable for these types of sentiments. Remember the reactions to the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? Private property. Yet Fox proliferated the whole “kick in the nuts” that Islam had delivered. Countless times I’d hear people say shit that basically equates to " They are plotting our destruction in those mosques". Fucking retards. And then the whole illegal immigrant shit. Fuck you their human beings. Bastard Faux-Nazi cocksuckers[/quote]
Islamic symbolism aside, do you suggest we just say fuck it, drop all immigration policy and just see what happens?[/quote]

I am all for controlling illegal immigration, but that is no reason to treat human beings like animals just for trying to find a better life. This attitude is also not limited to illegal immigrants. I came to this country legally, met all the requirements to become a citizen and passed the citizenship test, and I still get weird looks, and people telling me to go home or that I came to this country to steal people’s jobs. Whose job have I stolen? There is a SHORTAGE of physicists right now. What does someone have to do in order to deserve to be here?

92

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
This is horrible. I hope they catch and fry the bastard who did this to that poor woman. I don’t understand some people’s attitudes toward immigrants. My girlfriend and I have both experienced this attitude (I am Russian originally and she is Indian), not to this extent though and it is very upsetting, especially considering that I am now a US citizen and she is close to being one. We have both been told many times that we “should go back to where we came from.” [/quote]

That type of attitude is fucking disgusting. My own grandmother says shit like this. The irony of course is that she herself immigrated here postwar, from Germany right after her dad got out of Russian Gulag. The most racist, negative person I know. A wonderful person otherwise. But sometimes I feel like telling her, “Your dad was a Nazi. You might wanta not perpetuate that stereotype.”

I feel that in many ways a blatantly alarmist right wing media (i.e. Fox) can be held accountable for these types of sentiments. Remember the reactions to the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? Private property. Yet Fox proliferated the whole “kick in the nuts” that Islam had delivered. Countless times I’d hear people say shit that basically equates to " They are plotting our destruction in those mosques". Fucking retards. And then the whole illegal immigrant shit. Fuck you their human beings. Bastard Faux-Nazi cocksuckers[/quote]
Islamic symbolism aside, do you suggest we just say fuck it, drop all immigration policy and just see what happens?[/quote]

I am all for controlling illegal immigration, but that is no reason to treat human beings like animals just for trying to find a better life. This attitude is also not limited to illegal immigrants. I came to this country legally, met all the requirements to become a citizen and passed the citizenship test, and I still get weird looks, and people telling me to go home or that I came to this country to steal people’s jobs. Whose job have I stolen? There is a SHORTAGE of physicists right now. What does someone have to do in order to deserve to be here?[/quote]

This is what I was basically trying to say.

What area of physics do you specialize in?

93

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
What does someone have to do in order to deserve to be here?[/quote]

Apparently have your ancestors immigrate here before a certain cutoff point. We have gone from a nation built by immigrants and slaves to a “Sorry no vacancy” sign.

Good stuff Doc, thanks.

94

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

This is what I was basically trying to say.

What area of physics do you specialize in?
[/quote]

Nuclear Physics

95

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
What does someone have to do in order to deserve to be here?[/quote]

Apparently have your ancestors immigrate here before a certain cutoff point. We have gone from a nation built by immigrants and slaves to a “Sorry no vacancy” sign.

Good stuff Doc, thanks.
[/quote]

Who is arguing against immigration?

96

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
This is horrible. I hope they catch and fry the bastard who did this to that poor woman. I don’t understand some people’s attitudes toward immigrants. My girlfriend and I have both experienced this attitude (I am Russian originally and she is Indian), not to this extent though and it is very upsetting, especially considering that I am now a US citizen and she is close to being one. We have both been told many times that we “should go back to where we came from.” [/quote]

That type of attitude is fucking disgusting. My own grandmother says shit like this. The irony of course is that she herself immigrated here postwar, from Germany right after her dad got out of Russian Gulag. The most racist, negative person I know. A wonderful person otherwise. But sometimes I feel like telling her, “Your dad was a Nazi. You might wanta not perpetuate that stereotype.”

I feel that in many ways a blatantly alarmist right wing media (i.e. Fox) can be held accountable for these types of sentiments. Remember the reactions to the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? Private property. Yet Fox proliferated the whole “kick in the nuts” that Islam had delivered. Countless times I’d hear people say shit that basically equates to " They are plotting our destruction in those mosques". Fucking retards. And then the whole illegal immigrant shit. Fuck you their human beings. Bastard Faux-Nazi cocksuckers[/quote]
Islamic symbolism aside, do you suggest we just say fuck it, drop all immigration policy and just see what happens?[/quote]

I am all for controlling illegal immigration, but that is no reason to treat human beings like animals just for trying to find a better life. This attitude is also not limited to illegal immigrants. I came to this country legally, met all the requirements to become a citizen and passed the citizenship test, and I still get weird looks, and people telling me to go home or that I came to this country to steal people’s jobs. Whose job have I stolen? There is a SHORTAGE of physicists right now. What does someone have to do in order to deserve to be here?[/quote]
I share your sentiment. I’m all for controlling illegal immigration.

Good stuff doc, thanks.

97

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.

The police are investigating all leads and I heard on the radio this morning that they have leads that indicate that it wasn’t a hate crime at all.

… So, why would someone single out a mother, in her home, and beat her to death? If this was a hate crime wouldn’t you pick someone who was walking around in traditional attire or on their way to worship? Why would you break into this particular lady’s home? It just doesn’t make sense when you really think about the details of the crime.

We have a LOT of Muslims here and a LOT of them wear their traditional garments. We have a lot not just from the Middle East but also from northern Africa. They walk around all day, go to school, go to the gym, shop, etc wearing this and nobody attacks any of them. But they pick out this mother out of all of the other people in the community, all the other easy targets, all the other people just walking around, and leave a note? Why would you risk being caught like that if you just wanted to kill a Muslim? I don’t think you would.

[/quote]

A better articulated statement of my hunch.

The whole “note” thing smells like a red herring to this cynical lawyer.[/quote]

I concur. My money is on the husband.
[/quote]

Looks like the police agree with us cynics:

“Murder of Iraqi-American Woman May Not Have Been a Hate Crime”

Search warrants in the case of Iraqi-American woman who was beaten to death last month suggest that there may be more to the story than just a case of anti-Muslim violence. According to court records obtained by the San Diego Union Tribune, the victim, Shaima Alawadi, was looking to divorce her husband and move to another state, while her 17-year-old daughter, Fatima, was also distraught about being forced to marry her cousin. Fatima Alawadi also reportedly received a crytpic text message shortly after the attack saying, “The detective will find out tell them (canâ??t) talk.”

Investigators also learned of another incident that adds to the portrait of a family in trouble. Fatima was picked up by police last November after they responded to a report of two people having sex in a car and found the daughter in a car with a 21-year-old man. Her mother came to pick her up, but while driving home, Fatima threw herself out of the moving car at 35 m.p.h., breaking her arm. She reportedly told hospital staff that she was upset about the arranged marriage.

Finally, police have determined that the key piece of evidence â?? a threatening note found next to the body telling the family to go back where they came from â?? was a photocopy and not the handwritten original. (The family did say they previously found a similar note outside their home, but did not save it.)

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/murder-iraqi-american-woman-may-not-have-been-hate-crime/50759/

98

And the husband is out of the country. Wonder if he’ll come back…

This is a perfect example of people jumping to conclusions before knowing all of the facts. I notice that DN hasn’t posted in this thread in a long time. I guess it’s a matter of dropping in, playing the race card, then leaving again. Too bad.

james

99

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Looks like the police agree with us cynics:

“Murder of Iraqi-American Woman May Not Have Been a Hate Crime”

Search warrants in the case of Iraqi-American woman who was beaten to death last month suggest that there may be more to the story than just a case of anti-Muslim violence. According to court records obtained by the San Diego Union Tribune, the victim, Shaima Alawadi, was looking to divorce her husband and move to another state, while her 17-year-old daughter, Fatima, was also distraught about being forced to marry her cousin. Fatima Alawadi also reportedly received a crytpic text message shortly after the attack saying, “The detective will find out tell them (canâ??t) talk.”

Investigators also learned of another incident that adds to the portrait of a family in trouble. Fatima was picked up by police last November after they responded to a report of two people having sex in a car and found the daughter in a car with a 21-year-old man. Her mother came to pick her up, but while driving home, Fatima threw herself out of the moving car at 35 m.p.h., breaking her arm. She reportedly told hospital staff that she was upset about the arranged marriage.

Finally, police have determined that the key piece of evidence â?? a threatening note found next to the body telling the family to go back where they came from â?? was a photocopy and not the handwritten original. (The family did say they previously found a similar note outside their home, but did not save it.)

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/murder-iraqi-american-woman-may-not-have-been-hate-crime/50759/ [/quote]

Can’t say I am too surprised about this. I wonder who sent that text to the daughter? I hope they figure this out and send whoever did this to jail for the rest of their life.

100

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.

The police are investigating all leads and I heard on the radio this morning that they have leads that indicate that it wasn’t a hate crime at all.

… So, why would someone single out a mother, in her home, and beat her to death? If this was a hate crime wouldn’t you pick someone who was walking around in traditional attire or on their way to worship? Why would you break into this particular lady’s home? It just doesn’t make sense when you really think about the details of the crime.

We have a LOT of Muslims here and a LOT of them wear their traditional garments. We have a lot not just from the Middle East but also from northern Africa. They walk around all day, go to school, go to the gym, shop, etc wearing this and nobody attacks any of them. But they pick out this mother out of all of the other people in the community, all the other easy targets, all the other people just walking around, and leave a note? Why would you risk being caught like that if you just wanted to kill a Muslim? I don’t think you would.

[/quote]

A better articulated statement of my hunch.

The whole “note” thing smells like a red herring to this cynical lawyer.[/quote]

I concur. My money is on the husband.
[/quote]

Mine too.