Has Anybody Started TRT with Adrenal Fatigue?

There you go. Your digestive system is pissed off and has been for a long, long time. Great move on the elimination of bad foods but understand they’ve worn your digestive tract down overtime. It will take a while to heal your digestive tract, so stay the course. Glutamine between meals 2-3 times a day is a huge, NOTICEABLE, help for me - along with the filtered water + celtic sea salt I mentioned above. I also had to eliminate those things, but after doing the Velocity Diet, realized I had to eliminate dairy as well (whey and yogurt, etc).
As far as your current diet, what EXACTLY did you eat yesterday? The saying, “You are what you eat” isn’t exactly true. You are what you digest is better. When you are irregular and spraying the toilet, your foods are passing through your system too fast for nutrients to be absorbed properly. All of these systems you’re chasing with blood tests are interdependent and use those nutrients as building blocks. If you’re not optimizing your nutrition/nutrients, your systems can’t do what they need to very well…which puts stress on your body.
How many supplements are you actually taking?
I recommend you continue to focus on your diet and your digestion foremost. Focus on clean, nutrient dense foods that don’t piss off your digestive system. Healthy fats like Olive Oil and avocados, not fatty meats. Up your vegetable servings and keep the meats lean and you should be able to move away from taking fiber supplements. How much water are you drinking daily? This is huge in your digestion too. Your poop tells you if you’re on the right track. Sliding scale-like too. If you’re spraying - real bad. Loose, not as bad but not good either. You want long and smooth daily (that’s what she said). Pebbles or deer poop means you need to drink more water.
Do you have any other sources of inflammation? Stiff hands, feet, joints? Your high ferritin indicates you’re inflamed but it may manifest itself in other ways. I bet your gut is where you’re inflamed but you see it elsewhere. Have you had any skin breakouts like eczema or hives, etc as an example?
You’ve also got to address the big ugly elephant in the room. The one that is actually sitting on your chest. The stress. Something or some THINGS are causing your body to react negatively. How is your sleep (duration a night and quality)? How is work? Family? Relationships? What are the things that eat at you when you try and unwind at night or first thing in the morning? When was the last time you weren’t stressed? What’s different now? Even your workouts are a stress your body reacts to. What are those like in intensity and volume? All of these little things stack up and your body has to cope with them.
Another piece that I see are your stimulants. You say 3-4 coffees a day? How large are we talking and how much caffeine? Is this in the morning or spread through the day? Research the half-life on caffeine in your system. It sticks around for a while and hammers you when you’re using it that much. Why are you drinking so much coffee? Is it a choice or a need to keep going? How about energy drinks or a pre-workout? Are those in the mix too?
You may want to get your Vit D and B12 levels checked as well. Vitamin D being the higher priority.

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Maybe you should look into a food allergy test. I’ve heard it spoken about on the Joe Rogan podcast a couple times but don’t have any real world experience with them. Maybe it could shed some light on something you eat that is causing issues.

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Here in Bulgaria all food allergy tests are scam Ive researched. I think only in US you have working tests of this kind. Here every time you test you get a different result :smiley:

Thanks for the detailed post. First my Vitamin-D is very optimal I keep it 50-70 for the last year but I need to start k2 as well. B12 I think is also decent even though I take metformin. I was taking 1000mcg sublingular but the last test showed levels around 470 and I was told I should aim around 600 so increased to 3000 mcg per day. Other supplements I take - ashwagandha 450mg evening time and 1 full male dose ZMA before bed. Magnesium still not optimal around midrange so I plan to switch to other magnesium type. I’m trying now to incorporate organic multivitamins and cod liver oil, get some side effects of them but soon my body will adjust and will have no issues I believe.

Yesterday I ate chicken steak from leg with boiled potatoes and big green salad for lunch with 1 egg. I skiped afternoon meal and for dinner ate around 140g boiled rice with horse meatballs and some salad of tomatoes, cucumbers and cottage cheese. After that I worked out and then ate protein shake(by the way I recently switched to organic), 2-3 brasil nuts and from 10 days I started drinking raw eggs from quail 5-6 per evening. I did not notice negative stomach impact from that.

By the way it is strange because some days I have perfect stools but other days it is explosions and I eat very much the same or similar things every day.

About stress - I had some stressful relationship issues, but I think my ability to handle stress was always terrible. Very rarely in life I had big stress its more likely that I get stresses extremely easily. For example when I drive in traffic I get extremely aggressive towards the slow drivers. And in 2011-2014 were my most stressful years. Ive worked aboard merchant ships and my health and sleep went down the toilet. I got depression, insomnia, I was taking sleeping pills for a few weeks and it was basically terrible. I think never recovered fully from that but for a few years managed to burry my head in the sand without major issues.

By the way I think now another thing that can cause me issues is that I eat very fast since I remember myself… and definetely I have unhealthy relationship with food with tendency of binging

I also started putting salt in 2-3 glasses of water in the day and I think Im 1-1.5kg heavier maybe holding up more water?

Well Vonko, I think we’ve torn the lid off this. This is where you should focus and put your efforts into recovery. This is built up from your history and your body hasn’t recovered from it. I think it’s your root cause and the other items you’ve been chasing are the symptoms of it. The good news is, you don’t need a doctor to tell you this or prescribe anything. The key is consistency for the next 4-6 months and get your nutrition, digestion, sleep, and stress under control. Then you can look at labs and see what your NEW levels are and where to go from there.

On Vit D, not as bad as I was expecting. 60-80 seems to be the recommended range and there is a tendency to be low in folks with digestive issues. Keep an eye on it. When was it tested last and was it 25-hydroxy?

On Vit B12, what is the scale of your test? pg/ML? If so, 470 is low but not bad. Healthy seems to be ~750, so you’re almost half that.

Your diet is sub-optimal. You eat inconsistently and can probably make better choices as far as nutrient dense food goes. For example, a big green salad is good from roughage perspective, but what about nutrients? Another example, this is what I just ate - 1/2 yellow bell pepper, 1/2 zucchini, fistful of baby spinach, 6oz grass fed top round beef, 1/2 sweet potato, 1/4 cup chicken broth, 1/2 avocado, 1/2 cup white rice, salt and pepper to taste in a big bowl with 4 raw baby carrots. Same or more vegetables than you have, but nutrient profile is a lot higher. Nothing wrong with salads, but add more to the party.

On the days you explode - are you stressed or eating fast? It’s one or both causing it. You see what your body does when you put a new supplement in…flush! Stick with foods that keep your body happy - no gas, no bloat, no indigestion or discomfort. Practice mindful eating. Meaning put energy and focus into chewing each bite of food a MINIMUM of 10 chews before swallowing. You would probably do better with 15-20 chews just to build the habit and force yourself to slow down. It only helps your digestion down stairs.

Slow down and enjoy your meal. You need to rebuild your relationship with food. Be more consistent with your meal frequency too. These will all help with controlling the binging. Do you have stress triggers that push you to binge eat?
You’re a stress monster and need to get that under control. Burying your head doesn’t help and you’re only bottling it up under pressure. Little things like slow drivers shouldn’t have that much of an impact on you, but you’re choosing to let it. What are your hobbies or outlets to relax?

You haven’t answered the sleep, coffee/pre-workout, or workout questions. How are all of those? How is the ZMA helping your sleep?

Sleep is sometimes good sometimes bad, really cannot determine why. When I was taking 6-12 mcg T3 I started to get issue but now I take around 3 and it does not effect sleep. My sleep is really on periods. I sleep between 12 and 7-7.30.

I was drinking 2-3 coffees per day for the last two years but the latest one was around 2 pm. For the last week ive stopped all only decaffeinated because I really enjoy the taste of coffee.
Pre workout I take only creatine. I tried some EAA but stopped them because they increased my appetite too much. ZMA I think improves my sleep a bit. The B12 is measured in pmol/l.

To be honest I know I should eat more vegetables but to be honest I hate them especially the most nutritious ones. Dont know how it comes the few vegetables I like turn out to be not very nutritious and I crave only things like sweets and pasta that I avoid with willpower. And yes you got it right when Im stressed I have urges to binge. Maybe boosting my cortisol like that have no idea. About meal frequency I eat every day the same time and I try to eat as little times as possible this seems to work best for me, eating frequent increases my appetite too much(insulin issues I guess)

Do you call them horse meatballs because they are big or are they actually made from horse meat?

From horse meat

Well Vonko, you need to determine why. This is huge and preventing your recovery. Just 1 additional hour of restful sleep a night for the next 2 weeks would be a game changer for you. Get your sleep right. You were stacking stimulants with meds and coffee and not sleeping well because of the residuals in your system. What else? Are you too hot? Too cold? what does pre-bed look like? Are you staring at TV/computer blue light before bed? Etc. Get your sleep hygiene right.
You’re on the right track. You’ve eliminated certain foods in cleaning up your diet and already see the effects. Losing 10KGs is no accident in that short of time. Now you need to continue to adjust to get the nutrients in. You’re like my son with vegetables. But you have to put your big boy pants on and find ways around that or you’ll be taking fistfuls of vitamins and supplements for the rest of your life. Paying premium prices for pills instead of what it costs to buy vegetables. You can blend them and hide them in things that mask the flavor. Put some in smoothies with berries. Blend and put them in tomato sauces, etc. Just get them in.
I hear you on the coffee and flavor. I have mine every day too. I just won’t have any after 8am. Since you just cut that back a week ago, your body will be pretty pissed at you for that. It will take a few days, but I think you’ll eventually see benefits in your sleep quality.
Find ways to relax and let go. Build new rituals and habits to replace the old ones you’re starting to see that got you here.

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That’s interesting. How do they taste?

All this sounds good but Ive been trying to heal myself naturally for almost two years and I think I need some hormones to greatly fascilitate this process. Dont you think I will benefit from administering testosterone and NDT in the long run?

I dont believe my testosterone levels will rise naturally and even if they do it will not be significant. Ive tested administering two injections testosterone suspension base(no ester) to see how I will feel. To be honest for a few hours after that I felt amazing like never in my life and to be honest Im pretty sure it was not a placebo. I felt very envigorated and at the same time relaxed and calm. All my nervousness was gone. I realize this may be a temporary reaction and not lasting for long with such intensity when I start to administer, but still needs to be taken into account. Of course there is the other side that Im afraid of some if the testosterone side effects and this in combination with not having too low levels makes me hesitant

Strange :slight_smile: Different I dont know they are very lean, a little more difficult to chew maybe some mix between beef and chicken fillet. You dont have there?

No sir, I don’t think I’ve ever seen horse meatballs anywhere I’ve shopped. If they are lean, I wonder if they are a good source of lean protein, like chicken is.

How is everything else going? Forgive me if you’ve posted this, but have you started TRT yet? If so, what’s your protocol and how are you doing?

No havent started yet you can check the situation in previous replies :slight_smile:

Horse is an excellent source of protein but the meatballs must have some pork otherwise its too lean
Where do you live you dont have there?

Have you really? I would say you’ve only just started to in the last 10 months by your own account. Look, do you think it coincidence that I suggested you may have a digestion problem, a nutrition problem, a sleep problem, and a stress problem just by some of your labs? Which you then came back with, “as a matter of fact I do” on all counts. Your basics are broken and you need to get your foundation right. If you take hard accountability of cleaning these things up over the next 6 months, you may be surprised at the improvement. Take the money you’re dumping into supplements and put it into whole foods. THEN get your labs done and see where you stand with TRT. You’re just throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks right now. You don’t want to take accountability of the basics and want a magic pill or prescription to fix everything. I’m not saying you still won’t need those things down the road, but you clearly have things you don’t need a doctor to fix that have a ripple effect on your internal functions.
Good luck with everything and remember you can’t build a strong house without a strong foundation.

@darthmason To be honest all this you’ve written makes sense and I agree.

From my perspective since 8 months Ive made great improvement in my diet and dropped a lot of weight. But the improvement in the way I feel was too small. I guess I can add more veggies and I already started these days, but to be honest I dont believe this will make the difference. I know that the gut microbiom must be improved and I will try to apply this as well as slow down my eating pace.
As for the sleep - I dont believe I have more to do about it.

The sleep issues seem issues from some of mg nervous systems, symphaticus or parasymphaticus. Some of them was totally destroyed when working aboard the ships years ago. And no matter what Ive done for the sleep the slightest stress can wreck havoc on it.

As for the stress I feel totally helpless. I really have zero tolerance for stress and everything makes me feel stressed most of the time. Reducing stress seems mission impossible. And I know how well I can handle this in the rare moments I feel good.

Feels like to improve the things I think I need to do something more radical. My quality of life suffers a lot. I have issues at work, at my relationships, even with family and friends - all because of my intolerance to stress, inability to focus and think clearly. And to be honest I believe it’s high time to fix that one way or another. When there is a problem I’m not the person that can let it go.

My research points out that testosterone can help me enough in all those areas so Im able to take the control again and do the necessary improvements.

I will consult another elite interventional endocrinologist Ive been following for some time to hear his opinion and if he advise me to start some hormonal therapy I will do it.

@vonko1988
I don’t mean this in a bad way but have you considered therapy for dealing with stress? There could be a fixable problem with the way you’ve learned to deal with stress (or lack there of). I’ve learned through therapy that much of what we think is reality is just how our brain has learned to process/project information. Just like working out with poor form leads to injury and less than ideal results. Having someone look at you and correct your form in real-time is the best way to start doing it right.

There are a ton of not so great trainers out there just like there are a ton of not so great psychiatrist. You’ll have to do your research to find the best but it could be a game changer. Fixing how stress affects you and what you deem stressful will have a positive effect on your body not only mentally but physically.

@dextermorgan In fact Ive started therapy a few months ago as well. The therapist is highly recommended and I think good. There is some help from that and I know all my symptoms have mental side.

But they have physiological side as well, which is very strong, cannot be ignored and cannot be compensates mentally and the therapist totally agrees to that. He encourages me to do what I got to do.

You personally did you have improvement on stress since starting TRT and how much?