Do shots cause PV?
I got PV (Polycithemia Vera, too much and too thick blood) when I went to shots. From the studies I’ve perused, a significant number of study participants have to drop out, due to PV.
Androgel did not seem to cause this for me.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Do shots cause PV?
I got PV (Polycithemia Vera, too much and too thick blood) when I went to shots. From the studies I’ve perused, a significant number of study participants have to drop out, due to PV.
Androgel did not seem to cause this for me.[/quote]
Did you get similar T levels with both? More frequent injections reduce T spike extremes, a possible way to reduce this effect.
Hey Guys-I just read the statements from TXM3-He says that his total cholesteral is 123-In the past year a number of my friends have said very similiar numbers-My question is what kind of cholesteral tests are being used to determine this low number-LEF states that levels below 160 is related to a greater chance of stroke and other negative effects-What good is high test levels if you’re going to crap out all too soon-KSman is the resident LEF follower so I have to ask him…what do you think-Did I read the LEF article wrong-
You read LEF correctly. That seems abnormal. What is known about total cholesterol numbers for these guys prior to TRT? If you search through LEF you can find a magazine article about a couple of reports of people with very low cholesterol, but from extreme diets.
If ‘he’ is a LEF member, he can consult with LEF about that.
Headhunter wrote-
The usual route for most of the people investigating HRT is through their family doctor. That’s like asking the 3 Stooges to perform life saving surgery. Won’t happen. GPs go that route because they are too dumb to be specialists. You can either fuck around with these ignorant boobs or go straight to the specialist.
I guess that’s my ‘agenda’: Despising human suffering and helping others avoid it.
[/quote]
As a Family Physician who must have been “too dumb to be a specialist” I guess I object to being called an ignorant boob. First of all, virtually no doctors are “GP’s” any more- almost all primary care doctors are either board certified in family medicine or internal medicine. As such both ARE specialists. I have to take a board-certifying exam to be a family doc, and then retake one every 7 years, along with continuing education requirements.
Many other specialists I work with admit to wanting to go into a narrow specialty because they found being a generalist too overwhelming. As for testosterone replacement, it is an area with a lot of uncertainty, and from reading posts here it is clear that very few physicians have a good handle on it- whetether they are endocrinologists or the ignorant boob primary care docs. It would be best to find a doc with a particular interest in the area, regardless of what specialty.
Even then we are dealing with a lot of gray area stuff. It is important also not to forget the placebo effect. Look at the studies done to approve androgel and testim, and you see a lot of improvement in the placebo arm also. I do treat a number of hypogonadal men, who are happy with the results.
Paul
Hi Guy:
I just got on the site to do some hormone replacement therapy research. This thread looks like the place to get some good info. The thread does not look active so should I be contacting the individuals directly or just post my questions here.
As far as my questions go, I had blood work done for testosterone levels free and total
The free testosterone was 89.6 pg/mL (50 -210 was listed as normal)
Total testosterone was 321 ng/dL (260 â?? 1000 was listed as normal) (my level dropped from a year and half ago by approx 100 points)
DHEA Sulfate was 190 ug/dL (80-560 is normal)
LH was 2.6 mIU/mL ( 1.0 to 9.0 range is normal according to the test results)
Based on this test my GP wrote me a prescription for androgel 5 gram/day
After the first 30 days I can say for sure that I get a hard-on just much more easily than before. Itâ??s like a daily dose of Viagra. As far as my work outs go, I think Iâ??m getting some better results but I canâ??t say for sure yet. I also think its to soon to see any better results in the gym.
I understand from reading here on this site that even if I get my Testosterone levels up to 800 it probably wonâ??t help much for the lifting but Iâ??m hoping for best. Iâ??ve been at the same strength levels in the gym for probably 20 years. I think I have more size than when I was younger. The only thing that was keeping me going was that while I was not making any real progress, I was and am in great shape and as I age everyone else is getting worse, even the younger guys.
It occurred to me that maybe the reason I could not get any strength increase regardless of how hard I trained was the result of low testosterone levels. I now plenty of other guys that get good results from weight training without using anything other than over the counter stuff like createne ect.
I gather from the info listed here that I should find a HRT specialist and get my Estradiol level checked
Last question I had was something that I found kind of funny on the directions for the androgel, one it said not to put it on your abdomen and not to put it on you genitals. Iâ??m assuming there must have been a number of men putting this stuff on their deal to try and get it to work again.
I was also wondering if this is something Iâ??ll have to continue to use the rest of my life. Not that mind that, I just wonder if I should not be keeping an eye on some other things like my prostrate health if Iâ??m on this stuff.
GeoBob
You need to supply age, weight [185], height [6’1"] how you carry your fat, waist size and other things so we are not guessing in the dark. Are you planning on having any [more] kids?
You need to understand why T+AI+hCG is recommended as a standard of care.
Your problem might be from E or prolactin inhibition of your HPTA, or simply age related. Did symptoms start to occur after a blow to the head or accident? Any meds, Rx or OTC might be a cause or making things worse.
Low thyroid levels can sometimes reduce testosterone levels and the two conditions otherwise have similar symptoms and effects on libido, mood and energy.
5 gr T-gel is often not enough and may work for a while then stop absorbing if your skin changes. You need to monitor serum E2 levels and should seek a level near E2=22pg/ml. You have to decide if a topical makes sense with sweating at the gym and showering or with the heat of field work. Topicals can be costly. Injectables are least cost and have a certainty of delivery. Insurance or the lack of that changes the cost situation.
Hay Headhunter
I contacted renewman and got a referal or phone call today. They are putting me in touch with an office in Baltimore which is all fine, but I’m getting the impression from the first phone call that it’s not really a doctors office since they don’t submit any claims like local doctors office.
Have you been to one of there network offices in your area and if so, what was your experience. They said they were sending me e-mail with their prices. I have never had a doctors office do that.
I’ve been “supplementing” my Doctor’s prescription of 100mg/week from another source until recently. I have more energy and feel better with the supplement. Too bad the source dried up.
The post by middleageguy from May, 2009, has it right. Most docs don’t know jack shit about T levels, just as they don’t know virtually anything about AAS other than anecdotal BS from lame and questionable sources.
You can look for an antiaging specialist or a doctor of integrative medicine. Docs in these two areas tend to specialize in HRT, using both T and HGH.
For them that’s interested, I’m currently on Sottopelle T implants. I knew right away that something was going on because after four to five days I felt like I needed to go to one of those quickie oil lube places and get the oil on my face changed. Also, rapid onset of facial zits. Six weeks after the implantation of 10 pellets, my total T level went from 600 to 1640. Working out using the HST training program, I put an inch and a half on my upper arms in seven weeks. Any questions as to whether or not T replacement therapy works?
doctornorm
Pellets implants are majority not covered by insurances. They need to be replaced every 3 months to keep levels at plasma. They are great less e2 conversion and more natural levels that are constant instead of up and down ride. You do not have to take a shot, rub gel on just goto dr have little procedure and viola done.
Down side is that it can cost up to 400-600 every time you get them inserted.
The 10 pellets I had inserted cost $270.00, and, no, were not covered by insurance. It took my doc about five minutes to implant them. I have no idea how much he may have charged for the implantation but I know my insurance typically only reimaburses him about 20% of his fees, which is a total ripoff.
According to the pellet website as well as my physician, the pellets should last four to six months, but I know that can vary. I do like the steady state T level as opposed to the peaks and valleys of injections, and it’s nice to just not have to hassle with it.
Libido is up, energy level is up, irritability is down, muscle growth is up. The only real downside is the oily skin and facial pimples but they’re being managed. No gyno noted but perhaps a small amount of testicular shrinkage.
doctornorm,
Whenever I have oily skin and/or pimples it is always caused by my E2 levels creeping up on me. When was the last time your E2 was checked? For me, as soon as I get my E2 back into the low 20’s the oily skin goes away and stays away. Just a thought…
Edit: I thought this was the Estrogen why you should care thread, my apologies.
These posts are off topic. Please note the topic of this sticky and confine posts to the subject. This thread is not forum.
[quote]AynRandLuvr wrote:
"A retrospective analysis by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) published in The New England Journal of Medicine found no causal relationship between testosterone replacement and prostate cancer or heart disease risk
“We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate cancer or cardiovascular disease,” said Abraham Morgentaler, a urologist at BIDMC and associate clinical professor at Harvard Medical School. “Although it would be helpful to have data from long-term, large-scale studies, it must also be recognized that there already exists a substantial body of research on the effects of testosterone in men.”
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/02.05/10-testosterone.html
[/quote]
AynRandLuvr-
I apologize but I did not see anything in this article that states more is better. I am looking for articles that do state this, I would like to add more to this if I may. Here is another article that was written in December of 2008 that speaks to the same information with additional reference links at the end. Enjoy.
This is the right forum. Please create your own post and do not restart something that you just happened to find. Please first read the “protocol for injections” sticky. Its a long read because it gets hijacked too much.
Post numbers, units and ranges.
Wow, after reading all the way through this, I feel like I should at the very least get some base line tests. Can anyone here recommend any threads that I can read to know what these blood tests are called and how to request them? (Is it just a standard blood test but you ask for blood T levels with the results?)
I’d rather not have the kind of experience HeadHunter was describing, getting sent from one kind of specialist to another etc. so I’m guessing I should know what I want, where to get it, what to ask for, and who to ask, so I don’t show up just to get deflected off to something else. Thanks in advance.
Something like this:
* Chemistry Panel (Metabolic panel with lipids)
* Complete Blood Count (CBC)
* Free Testosterone
* Total Testosterone
* DHEA - Sulfate
* Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
* Estradiol
* Homocysteine
* C-reactive protein (High sensitivity)
* TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone)
TSH is a new addition to the above panel.
Note current sale price for members.
For some, paying out of pocket for tests at LEF is cheaper than from their doc. Depends on insurance. If doc will not play, do the above on your own then you know what your levels are and can pursue options from there.
We can help you interpret the results.
Always get and retain lab results from your doctors! You need to have your own medical history.
More info in the ‘protocol for injections’ sticky.
Not sure if this is a repeat posting of these videos. If that is the case sorry. If not and you have not seen these videos its a good lecture on Low Test. Good review or learning either way.
Cross post requested by KSman