If you arrested someone because you thought they fit the description of a person you were looking for then I hope you have a good lawyer. Most people will let it slide because they do not know any better.
No Pat, I never said I knew you. What I DID say is that bad attitude shows, and if you expect to be treated like an ass you probably will be. (Incidently, my post was not directed only to you.) When someone expects something bad to happen it shows, they get may tense, they may sweat, they may get attitude, there are MANY very obvious signs that can be read by an observant individual. What I am saying is that it seems like an aweful big coincidence that with all of your run ins with the cops you’ve always dealt with jerks. And no, it is not illegal to be a jerk, but it IS a bad idea to be a jerk to a cop who feels he or she has a reason to talk to you.
If I have probable cause to believe you are a suspect in a felony crime in CA. you will be taking a ride with me until I am some how convinced you are the wrong guy. That’s just the way it is, no matter what it says in your school books. If arrests of felony “SUSPECTS” based on probable cause were not allowed, the streets would be even more flooded with crooks than they already are.
Herc, you’re dealing with a pedestrian lawyer here. I know that you’re aware of this, but after 15 years on the beat I’m amazed that you still have the stamina to argue with one. By the way, some of us are very grateful for the job you do, and you guys don’t hear it enough. Thanks.
Books? Well the criminal code is a book. I guess CA is more of a police state than most people think. No wonder the USA has the highest crime rates of any developed country. They keep arresting people for no reason and get away with it. Probable cause must be more than a person exercising their rights and refusing to answer questions from some cop. I guess Canada values human rights more than the USA.
Molsonman there are two questions you MUST answer. Your name and birthday. Actually, that may be a a state by state case, but it has been upheld.
Molson, I’m sorry Herc is absolutely correct. This is something you learn in the academy from the very statutes themselves. If a cop has probable cause you’re taking a ride. This includes fitting a description that he can’t clear up with you (which is why you have to supply your name and b-day). No, this isn’t a Caifornia thing. In fact, a cop can stop and detain you (stop and ask you your name and b-day based on reasonable suspicion which is a very low threshold; lower than probable cause). I realize you’re are in school studying this, but so does every cop who uses these techniques and then must defend his reason for detaining or arresting someone.
I can tell you that in the state of Maryland, you are legally required to hand over identification if a police officer asks for it. (In fact, you can be arrested for not having a license/state provided id card). So in that instance, perhaps you are legally allowed to “walk away,” but then you’re out your ID. My father was a policeman for 20 years (as anyone that talks to him for five minutes will figure out), and I heard all sorts of stories about the people that he worked with. Some of them were good people, some stupid, some smart, some literally certifiable. Some of them were especially nice to citizens, while others had no tact or got off on a power trip. To an extent, there is a common “cop mentality,” and some people will always get off on power. On the other hand, some people just have shitty gut reactions, and end up getting angry and doing stupid things because they didn’t stop to think.
Although an officer is entitled to question any person in order to obtain information with respect to a suspected offence, he or she has no lawful authority to compel that person to answer. Nor can an officer detain a person for questioning or further investigation unless he or she makes an arrest on a specific charge or has reasonable grounds to believe that person is about to commit an indictable offence. A person only has to give identification when the officer has seen that person committing an offence.
What country are you studying criminal justice in? You do not have to see a person actually commit a crime to detain him. A description is enough to give an officer reasonable decision to stop (detain) a person. At the point if you seem to fit a description and you won’t give your name. The officer can argue that based on the description he had reasonable suspicion to confront you. Then when you refused to give your name he felt that he had probable cause to haul you in (arrest). Now if it turns out the person wasn’t the guy they were after it still isn’t false inprisonement, because the officer was merely executing his duty lawfully. In otherwords, he didn’t just say “I’m bored, I’ll arrest this guy.” In fact, did you know that you can be held in jail until you provide your identity. Please don’t try to tell me that Canadian Cops can’t stop people based on descriptions. How would they ever be able to arrest anyone since you have to recognize the person first.
Bionic…Maybe they mistook you for a black guy.
funny, i am a white jewish girl!
michelle, do I sound like a little punk? i am currently in college, majoring in mechanical engineering, 3.4 gpa, co-op, etc. do i sound like the scum of the earth? i got a lot of crap in my younger days because i was always out late at night. insomnia is my friend. now i speed like there is no tomorrow. but like i said, when i get nailed, i take it and know it was my own damn fault. did i deserve a gun pulled on me? shit no. did i deserve to be patted down and insulted? hell no. i had done nothing wrong except break the speed limit. last time i checked that was a misdemeanor(sp?). not a felony. as i stated before, i am so damn polite it is pathetic. i act as if i were at an interview for a possible employment oppurtunity. calm, collect, yes sir, no sir, please, pardon, i apologize, etc. so i get messed w/? fuck that. i know a couple cops personally, and one is the biggest prick i have ever met in my entire existence on this big rock. the other is a damn cool guy. my sister now owns his service revolver. the jerk especially dislikes old women. he would tell stories about how much grief he would give them and laugh until he started crying. come on… just cuz she is old and gonna die soon means she should be treated any different than any other person? bullshit. anyway, you see where im coming from. im not some punk ass little prick who gets off on causing trouble. i dont mouth off to cops, im smarter than that.
First off, michele is the most level headed poster in this thread. She sees eveything clearly and speaks to the point. Just looking at your screen name tells me that you have pretentious frat boy stamped on your head. I read your post, and the thing about your ticket is bs, if its true. But no one beleives your harassment story, or the second one, the third and the FOURTH ONE?!?! Damn, that ones really a crock-o-shit.
I dont contest the validity of your text books. But anyone who lives in the real world knows that the world doesnt live in a book. Rules are bent, and sometimes mis-interpreted. I’m not a cop, but youve got four of em telling you that you are wrong. These people have been working their jobs for a long time now and know what their doing. You have been reading a book now for a year or two and dont. Judging from your name your probobly to busy kickin back booze to read your books neway. And if you try to base your career on cases like…“so and so walked away from said officer and refused to answer his qestions your honor. This situation has provoked me to sue the FBI, CIA, any local police division for $20 M.”…then I suggest you spend less time clutering up the forums and read your precious book-o-life a little more. Who wrote that again… Dr. Suess?
Hoss, do you know the definition or any characteristics of prejudice? It is pre-judging someone before you KNOW them, based on one attribute or another. So just because you think reading someone’s name makes you smarter than the rest of us, please enlighten us on how you know DA MAN is like you say he is. I happen to be his best friend and I think you’re a frickin moron. He is exactly the opposite of what you said and in fact could kick your ass. Every word of what DA MAN said is true: all four times of it and you have no basis for what your claims are so back the fuck up. I happened to be present on an occasion where the both of us were stopped by the cops and he was as polite and respectful as he could be. So before you go shooting your mouth based on NO evidence, why don’t you sit down and let someone educate you about making assumptions based without proof. Assuming things makes an ass out of you, NOT ME.
Don’t worry DA MAN…I believe you. Becuase I have seen it first hand. I have seen it happen to people I know and people I don’t know so well. Like this teenager at the gym, he was talking in a parking lot with his friends. They got surrounded by cops made eat eat assphalt while the cops searched them and their cars, then let them go with out an apology. You want to know why? He was young and he had a cool car that he work on all the time. Shit I got a million stories, all true, that have happened to me or somebody I know. It’s not bullshit, though some people choose to close their eyes to it, it’s a very real problem and they needs to be addressed, but it never will be. I do not see what is so hard to believe about it, after all a group people hijacked some planes and flew them into some buildings. Given that context I do not see what is so hard to believe about a group of people who abuse their power? After all isn’t that what most people think about politicians? If the people making the laws are jackasses, why is it so hard to believe that they would hire jackasses to enforce them. After all isn’t that what Clinton did, use a bunch of state troopers to help him cover up his infidelity? Like I said it will never be fixed. Anybody who tries will suffer greatly. Like that Georgia Sherrif who killed the sherrif-elect because he promised to expose and eliminate corruption. S.O.B. sprayed the guys house down with bullits, could have easiliy killed his whole family. That will likely happen to anybody who tries to ‘fix’ the problems. BTW there are some cops I feel very sorry for, the ones that have to clean up all those bodies from that creamatorium in somewhere, GA…I would have quit.That’s just nasty.
HEY, chill out would you? Look, Da Man, Bionic, and everyone else who thinks others are ‘prejudging’ them. Since all we have to go on is what you post and what you tell us, when you come off with attitude that is what we assume you are like. Look, I’m sorry, but 99% of people I know who ‘always have a problem with cops’ (or with whomever) are themselves the problem. So until you have a better attitude here, the rest of us are gonna have to draw the conclusion that in real like you are just as charming as you make yourselves out to be in your posts.
Thanks for the kind words everyone. When I first started reading this post I held my breath because I figured it was going to be nothing but cop bashing. It was great to see that it wasn’t! As in every other profession, there are people that take advantage of their position or are just down right assholes. I apologize to those people that have had encounters with “badge heavy” cops. I have worked with them, so I know they are out there. I always try to treat everyone I encounter on the job, or anytime, like I would want to be treated if the roles were reversed. Thanks again. Jeff
oh jeebus. so i am defined by something i say on an internet forum? thats news to me. and hoss, since you have the screen name of a large, slow witted character from bonanza, you must be dumb as a stump. that or you simply couldnt spell horse, and took your best stab. and since i can obviously conclude who you are and how intelligent you are, and every other aspect of you from your screen name, i will ignore your ignorant prejudging of me. please tell me you caught the sarcasm there, along w/ the irony… every case i stated was true. it makes no difference to me if you believe them or not, because I EXPERIENCED them. and your opinion makes has no influence on my life in any way shape or form. thanks pat, its nice to know that there is someone else out there w/ luck like mine. even my parents laugh at me cuz i have the worlds worst luck. murphy wrote his law for me, i know he did. just somewhere thru the years my name was omitted from the law, “anything that can go wrong for Dan Jones, will.” im dead convinced of that. sometimes this shitty luck involves cops. sometimes professors, sometimes friends, sometimes only goods or property. but since this thread pertained to officers of the law, i only spoke of experiences with said officers. michelle, if you think i am some punk kid, you are totally entitled to your opinion. but, you couldnt be further from the truth. thanks to bionic for the quick defense. but like i said. i am a fine upstanding young citizen if there ever was one. i respect the police force for what they have to deal w/ day in and day out. the dangers, the grief they get because of a certain few pricks that have given them a bad name. you see, i understand what they feel. just because i have had many encounters w/ police officers, i have been labelled a trouble making punk. just because they wear a badge they have been labelled power hungry pricks. do you see where i am coming from? let me take this approach, and no insult is intended, so do not take it as such. this is simply an example of what you have done to me, but it is being done to you. im sorry, but look, 99% of women that I know who ‘play rugby’ are lesbians. and 99% of women I know that think ‘the heavy bag is their friend’ are lesbians. so, until you cease playing rugby and workin the heavy bag, i will conclude you are a total lez. see how idiotic that sounds? To all the officers of the law present in this discussion- I apologize for any insult you may have taken from my posts. they were not intended as such. i greatly appreciate the job you do, as does everyone else deep inside. i was merely investing my 3.2 cents (inflation…) in the discussion. i too have had bad experiences w/ police. but as i said earlier, i have also had good. and in the long run, you dont answer to our opinions. as i dont answer to anyones elses, especially on an internet forum for petes sake… and you shouldnt. you should do your job as best you can, and take pride in the fact that you help this country and its citizens each and every day of your lives.
and i am damn charming…