[quote]Makavali wrote:
Does the Letro dosing cover pubertal gyno or only steroid induced gyno?
:/[/quote]
I dont believe anything can reverse pubertal gyno once its set in.
When its forming, mabey, but I doubt many 13 year olds are going to get on letro.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
I dont believe anything can reverse pubertal gyno once its set in.
When its forming, mabey, but I doubt many 13 year olds are going to get on letro.[/quote]
Figured Iād put that out there for those wondering.
[quote]s104494431 wrote:
Is this gyno?[/quote]
I would say yes just because of the little bulge near the nipple.
It may not be hormonal though, it could just be a rather odd distribution of fat deposits.
if there is a rubbery lump behind the nipple then yes, if its soft all the way through then its likely just fat.
If you lose weight it will likely go away.
I disagreeā¦ i dont think it WILL go away if he loses fatā¦ even ājustā fatty gyno is very very stubbornā¦ it may make it smallerā¦ but there is likely to be some left.
JJ
andā¦ ALL gyno is hormonal. just because it isnt the Mammory Glands that are enlarged, doesnt mean it isnt hormonal.
It is still Estrogen that cause that fatty deposit.
JJ
[quote] Brook wrote:
andā¦ ALL gyno is hormonal. just because it isnt the Mammory Glands that are enlarged, doesnt mean it isnt hormonal.
It is still Estrogen that cause that fatty deposit.
JJ[/quote]
Fair enough, but one is much much easier to deal with, and thats when the glad isnt involved.
Lets be honest, with his build I doubt hes going to hit 7-8% or lower bodyfat any time soon, if ever, and at 15% or even 12% or whatnot his fatty gyno āif reduced in sizeā will not even be noticeable beyond what is normal.
Hell even drugs might even work at this point simply because of the nature of the gyno he has. Gyno can almost never be cured once set in, but it can always be reduced.
[quote] Brook wrote:
andā¦ ALL gyno is hormonal. just because it isnt the Mammory Glands that are enlarged, doesnt mean it isnt hormonal.
It is still Estrogen that cause that fatty deposit.
JJ[/quote]
True enough. Christian Thibaudeau provided the definition below of Poliquinās Biosignature skin fold analysis:
Pectoral: indicates if you are prone to aromatization (converting testosterone to estrogen) or not. If the pectoral measure is higher than the triceps then you are probably converting too much of your testosterone into estrogens.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Does the Letro dosing cover pubertal gyno or only steroid induced gyno?
:/[/quote]
It is most effective at removing gyno during onset or the developing stages. Some gyno can be reversed later by this protocol, but not all.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
Brook wrote:
andā¦ ALL gyno is hormonal. just because it isnt the Mammory Glands that are enlarged, doesnt mean it isnt hormonal.
It is still Estrogen that cause that fatty deposit.
JJ
Fair enough, but one is much much easier to deal with, and thats when the glad isnt involved.
Lets be honest, with his build I doubt hes going to hit 7-8% or lower bodyfat any time soon, if ever, and at 15% or even 12% or whatnot his fatty gyno āif reduced in sizeā will not even be noticeable beyond what is normal.
Hell even drugs might even work at this point simply because of the nature of the gyno he has. Gyno can almost never be cured once set in, but it can always be reduced.[/quote]
ROFLMAO! your post truly cracked me up man!! HAHAHAARR!
āā¦Lets be honest, with his build I doubt hes going to hit 7-8% or lower bodyfat any time soon, if everā¦ā
poor fucker! lol!
i dont think so thoughā¦ i think that his boobs wont be shrinking at the same rate as his āmasculine fatā - so when he managed to hit 12%, his tits would STILL be evident, although not as big as nowā¦
(and OP - they could be worse so please dont be offended, however i strongly advise getting this under control AT LEAST before using aromatisable androgensā¦)
there is only one way to settle this; DIET, DIET, DIET, DIET!!!
lol 
JJ
I want to write a sticky!
http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/3/2/99
2 3-Epithio-5-androstan-17ĆÆĀæĀ½?-ol in Treatment of Gynecomastia
OSAHIKO ABE, M.D.1, SOICHI KUMAOKA, M.D.2 and HIROSHI YAMAMOTO, M.D.3
1 Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan
2 Endocrinology Division, National Cancer Center Research Institute Tokyo, Japan
33 Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan
Received November 19, 1973;
The experiment was performed for eight weeks by double blind methods in three dosage groups, epithiostanol 10 mg, and 20 mg and dromostanolone propionate 50 mg.
Epithiostanol 20 mg was most effective with regards to effect on mass size and tenderness, (effective in 96%, 20/21), followed by 10 mg epitiostanol (effective in 89%, 16/18) and dromostanolone propionate 50 mg (effective in 89%, 16/18) in descending order. No side effects were observed in any of the three groups.
Based on the results of the present study, epitiostanol is concluded to be at least as effective as dromostanolone propionate against gynecomastia and to be safe from the viewpoint of side effects.
A satisfactory therapeutical effect on gynecomastia can be expected with a weekly dosage of 20 mg of epitiostanol for an administration period of between five to eight weeks.
Present Address: Department of Surgery, Keio University Hospital, Shinanomachi, Shin-juku-ku, Tokyo, Japan.
Iām pretty sure most of you have already read this, but I thought it was pretty cool.
Iām assuming that maybe epistane can be used as masteron or winni are used on cycle in the manner of keeping gyno away. lol
Just a thought. Thought it was interestingā¦
DG
is this protocol effective at reducing gyno already present? can arimidex be used in a similar way/simialr doses?
Does anyone know how to get a hold of epitiostanol?
[quote]tokon wrote:
is this protocol effective at reducing gyno already present? can arimidex be used in a similar way/simialr doses?[/quote]
You can only lower E2 so far, after that your mind and body suffer. AIs can reduce E2, thus reducing the effects E2 on breast tissue. Note that AIs could have been used to avoid gyno in the first place.
Now that breast tissue has developed, it needs to be starved of estrogen. This may not be a ācureā.
SERMs remove the influence of existing E2 in breast and some other tissues. This will also increase T and thus serum E levels. An AI can be used with a SERM to control E2 levels.
Note that E2 in the 20-22pg/ml range is considered optimal from a libido point of view.
The study did not claim that the agents in question were more effective than clomid or nolvadex. It is a scheduled drug:
http://www.isomerdesign.com/Cdsa/scheduleUK.php?schedule=3§ion=20&structure=U
stick with SERMs
yes, epistane and havoc seem to be rather potent at gyno reduction for something that also produces mass and strength gains.
Alot of guys who made mistakes with stronger stuff run a cycle or two and see significant improvements.
it is also a very mild compound toxicity wise, and has very little suppression at those doses.
I think its popularity among the Prohormone users speaks to its worth, average gains seem to be around 5-10 pounds off a 4 week run and proper PCT.
And the big plus for most people is that you can buy it legally and easily.
I believe Manthony ran epistane, his input would be nice.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
I believe Manthony ran epistane, his input would be nice.[/quote]
awww i love you too.
I have always had fatty deposits behind my nipples that made my chest look crap IMHO. Made worse by my dbol only cycle with NO PCT. i ran epistane and now im still doing nolva PCT and moobs are almost gone, not completely but almost. What is left is purely because of my bodyfat level.
Epistane is great and im not at all suprised by people using it for estrogen management, but you still need PCT if you are going to run it alone.
IMHO dont complain of manboobs unless you are under 14% bodyfat, because if you are like me, you may just deposit fat your chest because of your genetics. Unless of course you can feel Grissel under your nipple which is a sign of breast-tissue development.
That. Plus. it gives you great gains in strength and very dry size that you keep! instead of bloating up and getting really depressed when your shirt sleeves go loose.
What would the dosing protocol be with letro and nolva if one wanted to try them against pubertal gyno? Would it be the same mentioned earlier?
I started getting symptoms of gyno today and started using a generic of nolva immediately after using it, I know now that letro would be the way to go but since im from South Africa my options are extremely limited, please help me to work with what ive got.
My generic of nolva comes in 10mg pills, would using 20mg be enough till my symptoms disappear?? How long wil it approximately take to go away?
Should i continue with my cycle as usual?
[quote]nickelh wrote:
I started getting symptoms of gyno today and started using a generic of nolva immediately after using it, I know now that letro would be the way to go but since im from South Africa my options are extremely limited, please help me to work with what ive got.
My generic of nolva comes in 10mg pills, would using 20mg be enough till my symptoms disappear?? How long wil it approximately take to go away?
Should i continue with my cycle as usual?
[/quote]
Telling us what compounds you are taking for your cycle would be helpful.
Take upwards of 60mgs per day for a few days then drop the dose down gradually until the symptoms go away.
You really should be using an AI. But if it is completely impossible to get one then using nolva throughout will probably be the best way to prevent gyno. Once you have the symptoms under control 10-20mgs per day should be enough.
