[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Are you claiming you’ve already cast the beam out of your eye?
Why yes he is. Why yes he is. He hasn’t seemed to figure out the hubris behind that statement yet either. Nor has he connected the simple dots to other biblical stories or texts. Instead he focuses on one line to change what was the obvious point of a story. He even used adultery to claim we should judge others…When Christ himself tells us that only those without sin should cast stones, or condemn.
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[center]Matthew 7 Do Not Judge
1 ?Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother?s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ?Let me remove the speck from your eye?; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother?s eye.
6 ?Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
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Obviously the title “Do Not Judge” (new king james) is telling us, “Christians Must Judge” as has been claimed.
You’ve got much more patience than I forlife. You’re a better Christan than I (even if you’re not a christian I’m afraid).
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It’s always good to see someone quoting scripture on T-Nation. Let’s take a look at what Jesus meant when he stated those words in Matthew.
If one takes a close look at the scripture in Matthew there is nothing in there which would indicate that we should not make judgements. However, there is a warning, in essence, if you judge you will be judged by that same measure:
“For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.”
He was particularly talking about the Pharisees and Sadducees who judged the people quite harshly and then in turn committed some of the same sins.
For example, when a politician is exposed for various sexual perversions and that very same politican helped sign into law legislation forbidding gay marriage.
That politician made judgements he had no business making as he had the same plank in his eye, or one equally large.
In addition to this one more verse you quote states “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces,” Christ is using dogs and swine to describe profane people who treat spiritual matters with contempt. The interesting part is that in order to obey that verse, we obviously have to make a judgment as to who the dogs and swine are.
Certainly Jesus did not intend for us not to make moral judgements of others. This is one way that we steer our own lives (and the Church) away from sin. If you look at an act and the actor and see sin you make a determination from that point.
Many times the Apostles made moral judgements, one such example is when Peter “judged” Sapphira and Ananias:
[b]"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things. Acts 4:32 - 5:11"[/b]
Some may even say he not only judged but was the executioner as well.
It is clear that we are to make all sorts of judgements of situations, people, ideas etc. But, we must do so fairly and in a righteous manner.
As to making these “moral” judgements Jesus said “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24). It is a command to judge fairly and on the basis of truth and fact rather than by outward appearances, but nevertheless to judge.
I thank you for the opportunity to speak about these things.
All the best,
Zeb