Sorry didn’t have the patience to read everyone’s posts. But I have my chl and you’ll have a hard time saying I can’t carry. This debate will go on forever. We totally should regulate more…Don’t get me started on politics 
Well, there have been several terrorist attacks in Europe involving guns, bombs, and trucks. Most of the attackers were not born in Europe, but that’s another story. Some people might look at that and say it’s an argument for deportation or racial segregation, but most if not all mass shooters in America were done by white people. It’s all about what is going on in your head.
The only solution that I can see is to give guns to everyone who isn’t mentally ill or convicted of violent crimes and increase security at schools and any large gatherings. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens might stop a few mass shootings (which could potentially be stopped by other means), but then criminals will have the upper hand and the rest of us will be sitting ducks. What is worse, the occasional mass shooting or the murder rate increasing?
One of the problems is that a significant portion of the country looks to government to secure them (external) while a significant portion of the country looks to themselves to secure their person (internal). So, right off the bat, there’s disagreement on who should have weapons in public settings.
I personally believe more concealed carry would equal less death. Obviously, not everyone feels that way.
At some point, people have to accept they are the best first line of defense and they are the quickest reactionary force.
2 Likes
Sounds like the attitude of someone who doesn’t think he could take on more than a few children at once.
1 Like
It would be, as I read it, a means of funding the education, matching the buyer of the service to the provider. And that isn’t a burden on a constitutional right any more than a city fee to have your parade on a public street is.
So MLK should have had to pay a tax to protest? Or, say the million black men that marched on DC? Did you pay your tax to speak/type freely on this forum?
Do you have a constitutional right to have a parade?
Peaceful assembly? Don’t know if rhat counts as a parade.
Seems like a stretch to me.
Is your protest occupying public property and requiring the use of certain public resources? Yes, some places require a fee. It’s not much, and it has to be content neutral, and it is designed to defray expenses associated with occupying the public space.
Same deal with the gun training tax - these instructors have to get paid, and the electric bill has to be paid, too. The money has to come from somewhere. Tacking on a small tax to help defray those costs is not worrisome.
Likewise, concealed carry permits cost money.
Libertarians need to get past this notion that constitutional rights are considered untouchable freebies, free of responsibility, to enjoy maximally whenever and however I damn well please. We’ve always attached certain duties to rights. A small tax to pay firearms instructors isn’t that big a deal.
Sure, it’s an exercise of free speech on public property subject to time-place-manner restrictions.
If we’re having publicly funded arms training anyway… Why not mandatory ROTC for all able bodied high schoolers? Learn some discipline, honor, esprit de corps and how to safely handle weapons.
The two other countries that have the most similar universal gun possession by citizens are Switzerland and Israel. They have less mass shooters. Maybe the mandatory military service has something to do with that.
First, I want to compliment you on starting this thread and (attempting) to keep it clean. As we all know, too often these devolve into stupidity, and despite the efforts of select posters to do that, for the most part you’ve been able to keep it on target by going back to these 2 questions.
I highlight this because I think it’s a common problem in these discussions. Too often people shoot down a recommendation because they can find one thing wrong with it, and then it turns into “Welp, guess we just shouldn’t change anything then.” Nothing will be perfect. Incremental improvement is the goal, not perfection.
I don’t know enough about actual regulations on the federal and state level to comment as intelligently as I’d like, so I am mostly staying out of the discussion, but I am learning from it. Thanks to those of you providing meaningful contributions.
It is when there are already a bagillion other “small” and large taxes tacked onto a whole bunch of stuff.
Wanna post on Facebook - small tax
Wanna publicly appointed lawyer - small tax
Wanna use the 5th - small tax
Want due process - small tax
Wanna protest racism - small tax
Wanna exercise the religion of your choice - small tax
Want a speedy trial - small tax
Wanna confront the witness against you - small tax
Bail - small tax
Oh, you prefer organic foods - small tax on top of the small sales tax in your state
I feel like there was a reason we rebelled against British rule…
Not a libertarian.
But this is a policy complaint (“too many taxes”), not an infringement of rights complaint. Bottom line is nothing is free, things have to be paid for, including firearms instructors for mandatory training.
You’re requiring a tax in order to exercise a constitutionally guaranteed right. I’d put that complaint in the latter category personally.
Let’s talk about this for a second too. You’re requiring firearms training in order to exercise a constitutional right and then forcing those that want to exercise said right to pay a fee to do so.
There is no way that will ever fly with a large portion of the country. Probably the majority.
How about we cut aid to other countries enough to pay for the training? Or funding for planned parenthood? Or Congression pay? Why do we need another tax?
I’d be surprised at that. How many are shrieking about the cost of concealed carry permits as infringements on their rights?
I don’t disagree with those options - however, I like individuals to have some skin in the game to pay directly for something they are getting.
Like 30%+ of my income goes to various taxes, I’ve got whole limbs in the game already.
Conceal carry permits don’t, IMO, technically infringe on the 2A. To your point, a lot of people “shriek” at having to pay for the permit.
Lol. Allegheny county actually delayed mine because I applied on my 21st birthday. The Deputy lady was like:
“you turned 21 today!?”
“Yes miss”
“Do you even own a handgun to carry!?”
“No miss, before today that would have been illegal.”
“Alright smart-ass, get over there and let me take your picture.”
4 Likes