[quote]zecarlo wrote:
So I’m supposed to watch an hour long video to get an answer? [/quote]
Governments kill people. Lots of people. Remember hearing about a fellow named Adolph Hitler, and a few million people he killed? Government. Remember hearing about a fellow named Joseph Stalin, and the many millions he killed? Yep, government. I imagine that the number of murders pales in comparison to the number of state killings throughout history.[/quote]
I think this an answer looking for a question. I never said I didn’t want people to own guns. I said that there should be some regulations on ownership. I don’t want just anyone to walk into a gun shop and but whatever he wants without question. The person could be a terrorist, for example. Yeah, yeah, they can get guns regardless, I know, but why make it easy for them? Let’s have all the illegals buy guns legally while we are at it.
And those killings and murders you mention were not perpetrated by governments. That’s being an apologist. They were committed by people. Stalin killed millions? Or, did he get others to do it for him? And those others are the people who are all around you. Absolute freedom is great but humans cannot handle it. Hitler said it was OK to kill Jews and what did the people do? They didn’t think about human rights and freedoms, obviously. Machiavelli wrote about what happens when people have choices.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Therefore by your own assessment the person selling them the drugs is in fact killing them, just takes longer than if they shot them…
[/quote]
Aren’t drugs like crack illegal? You see what just happened there, right?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think this an answer looking for a question. I never said I didn’t want people to own guns. I said that there should be some regulations on ownership. I don’t want just anyone to walk into a gun shop and but whatever he wants without question. The person could be a terrorist, for example. Yeah, yeah, they can get guns regardless, I know, but why make it easy for them? Let’s have all the illegals buy guns legally while we are at it.
And those killings and murders you mention were not perpetrated by governments. That’s being an apologist. They were committed by people. Stalin killed millions? Or, did he get others to do it for him? And those others are the people who are all around you. Absolute freedom is great but humans cannot handle it. Hitler said it was OK to kill Jews and what did the people do? They didn’t think about human rights and freedoms, obviously. Machiavelli wrote about what happens when people have choices. [/quote]
“Some regulations” doesn’t happen. When victimless activity is criminalized, innocents become the victims.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Therefore by your own assessment the person selling them the drugs is in fact killing them, just takes longer than if they shot them…
[/quote]
Aren’t drugs like crack illegal?[/quote]
Because our implication that classrooms would turn into shootouts wouldn’t be illegal?
lmao
yeah, and your arrogance in this exchange is really unflattering.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think this an answer looking for a question. I never said I didn’t want people to own guns. I said that there should be some regulations on ownership. I don’t want just anyone to walk into a gun shop and but whatever he wants without question. The person could be a terrorist, for example. Yeah, yeah, they can get guns regardless, I know, but why make it easy for them? Let’s have all the illegals buy guns legally while we are at it.
And those killings and murders you mention were not perpetrated by governments. That’s being an apologist. They were committed by people. Stalin killed millions? Or, did he get others to do it for him? And those others are the people who are all around you. Absolute freedom is great but humans cannot handle it. Hitler said it was OK to kill Jews and what did the people do? They didn’t think about human rights and freedoms, obviously. Machiavelli wrote about what happens when people have choices. [/quote]
“Some regulations” doesn’t happen. When victimless activity is criminalized, innocents become the victims.[/quote]
And what does that have to do with 12 year olds carrying guns?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Therefore by your own assessment the person selling them the drugs is in fact killing them, just takes longer than if they shot them…
[/quote]
Aren’t drugs like crack illegal?[/quote]
Because our implication that classrooms would turn into shootouts wouldn’t be illegal?
lmao
yeah, and your arrogance in this exchange is really unflattering.
[/quote]
I don’t understand what you mean with your first sentence. All I know is that I wouldn’t want to be in a classroom full of armed kids and I wouldn’t want my kid there either.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
And what does that have to do with 12 year olds carrying guns?
[/quote]
Well, that is a totally victimless activity.[/quote]
Define victim. It could be argued that allowing kids to buy and carry guns could have a negative effect on them.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I don’t understand what you mean with your first sentence. All I know is that I wouldn’t want to be in a classroom full of armed kids and I wouldn’t want my kid there either.
[/quote]
Great, but what does that have to do with gun laws? Send your kid to a private school where kids aren’t allowed to carry weapons. Hasn’t the government already decided that parents don’t get to decide, when it comes to public schools?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I don’t understand what you mean with your first sentence. All I know is that I wouldn’t want to be in a classroom full of armed kids and I wouldn’t want my kid there either.
[/quote]
Great, but what does that have to do with gun laws? Send your kid to a private school where kids aren’t allowed to carry weapons. Hasn’t the government already decided that parents don’t get to decide, when it comes to public schools?[/quote]
Parents don’t get to decide what?
Would you be OK with your kid being in a class full of armed students? And if you don’t have kids then you cannot possibly answer that question with any credibility. I lived in an inner city. I have a kid. She went to school briefly in an inner city. I taught in inner city schools. Anyone who says that kids should be allowed to carry guns would change their minds if they spent a day in my shoes back then. Experience with reality trumps assumption in dreamland.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Define victim. It could be argued that allowing kids to buy and carry guns could have a negative effect on them.
[/quote]
Not convincingly. Anything CAN be argued. I believe the definition of victim requires the negative effect to be the result of someone else’s action.[/quote]
Selling a gun. Allowing ownership of a gun. Allowing carrying a gun. They are all actions.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Selling a gun. Allowing ownership of a gun. Allowing carrying a gun. They are all actions. [/quote]
The child decides to buy the gun, own the gun, and carry the gun. The child initiates the action that results in his ownership of the gun. If I stab my wife to death, she’s not a victim of a steel manufacturer, and neither am I.
I don’t understand what you mean with your first sentence. [/quote]
sigh.
Your first post pointed out people (kids in your example) get guns, with the current laws in place, illegally.
Then you went on some slippery slope tangent about some hypothetical situation that is about as likely as to happen as my grandmother playing fullback for the Browns. And you did this under the implication of “these laws make the kids safer than they otherwise would be”.
I pointed out a whole bunch of other things, both legal and illegal that put these kids in harms way.
You played dumb like selling drugs wasn’t comparable.
I pointed out how it was.
You then, in a smart ass fashion, pointed out that crack is illegal.
And coming full circle I again pointed out, even if your insane fallacy dream world hypothetical came true, killing someone is still illegal, just like the kids who have guns now, and the drugs they do are.
So, we’ve established that something being illegal doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Which (assuming its completely fallacious nature didn’t already) renders your point moot. Seeing as it isn’t the gun harming anyone, but the person pulling the trigger. It isn’t whether some child has the gun or not, but rather if they shoot someone.
BUt again this whole thing ignores the fallacy of your original implications.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Parents don’t get to decide what? [/quote]
-Anything, in a public school
[quote]
Would you be OK with your kid being in a class full of armed students?[/quote]
-Nope
[quote]
And if you don’t have kids then you cannot possibly answer that question with any credibility. I lived in an inner city. I have a kid. She went to school briefly in an inner city. I taught in inner city schools. Anyone who says that kids should be allowed to carry guns would change their minds if they spent a day in my shoes back then. Experience with reality trumps assumption in dreamland. [/quote]
-Has your daughter been shot or killed in school? Were you shot or killed in school? I’m guessing that you did not experience gun violence in school. A better name for the “experience” you speak of is “emotion.”
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Yes, let’s not have legislation or regulations and that 12 year old can save money by simply buying a gun legally. [/quote]
Your own post states the regulation and legislation doesn’t prevent it from happening.
Legislation doesn’t stop 12 year olds form banging heroin either…[/quote]
but you must admit , the law requiring an individual to be 21 years old to own a fire arm along with the laws about contributing to the delinquency of a minor has seriously curtailed children getting guns . %100 , no but effective
Everyone should have the right of protection from cruel and inhuman punishment inflicted IF they can prove they deserve such treatment.
[/quote]
Little behind on this thread and a little off topic, but I could actually get behind this one. Some of these sick twisted bastards that rape and kill children should have to prove why they should not die some bizarre, inventive, torturous death. Anyway, I apologize for the hijack.