Gun Control III

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

9 year shoots instructor by accident at a gun range.[/quote]

Letting a 9 year old girl shoot a fully automatic weapon was a poor decision. I recall a very similar incident a few years ago.
[/quote]

The instructor is shitty and paid the ultimate price for being dumb.

Uzi’s are fucking awful guns, just awful. I’ve shot a couple, mini’s and full size and I’m all set ever shooting one again, or being around anyone shooting one. Fuck Uzi. (Sorry Jewbacca, your people dropped the ball on that one.)

That being said, I’m not 100% opposed to a young person, with experience shooting,* doing an ammo dump with a FA RIFLE. (Not a fucking 4 inch barrel in 9mm on a fucking mini uzi.)

If this guy had 4 hands on that firearm like he should have this wouldn’t have happened. Fuck that instructor, fuck that place for renting a mini Uzi to beginners and fuck those parents for being okay with it. I do feel for the little girl.

*This little girl would have gotten enough thrills with a good group with a 22 rifle, and maybe a couple smaller caliber handguns. The fuck she was handed a mini Uzi for is beyond me, but that said a good instructor could hand a mini to 1000 kids that age and have zero “accidents”. Fuck. [/quote]

I think uzi are badass… but completely I agree, the result of letting that little girl shoot one speaks for itself. Whats unfortunate is that this will be another tradgedy that the gun control activists will use to take our rights away, as if we had anything to do with it. Shit happens. Unfortunately, Darwin happens to be a bitch. But we do not need to take freedoms away because of it. This applies to more than just guns.

Last Thursday, Mom’s Demand Action For Gun Sense in America (MDAFGSiA?) launched a campaign to pressure Kroger grocery stores to stop allowing patrons to open-carry in their stores (where OC is legal).

On Saturday night, between 100 and 125 kids descended on a Kroger in Memphis, TN and beat an employee there unconscious. An elderly woman was beaten in the parking lot.

According to “someone who knows the people involved very well,‘They were playing a game called â??point them out, knock them out.â?? Where they would point someone out and attempt to knock them out or fight them. There was no real reason behind it.’”

Vid is disturbing.

^You know if one of those kids had been shot it would of been the end of the fucking world though…

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
^You know if one of those kids had been shot it would of been the end of the fucking world though… [/quote]

Not that I am hoping for this outcome, but I predict we will see a complicated case in the near future involving a mob of young black kids and a white shooter.

I grew up near Chicago and still follow the news there. “Wildings” are commonplace, where large groups of predominately black and often underage youth beat people, rob stores as a group and generally act awful. Basically the same thing you see in the above video.

With the implementation of concealed carry in IL I think it is only a matter of time before the perpetrators of a “wilding” make a fatal miscalculation in their victim selection process.

The media shitshow that will follow such an incident will probably be just as appalling as the circumstances of the incident itself.

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
^You know if one of those kids had been shot it would of been the end of the fucking world though… [/quote]

Not that I am hoping for this outcome, but I predict we will see a complicated case in the near future involving a mob of young black kids and a white shooter.

I grew up near Chicago and still follow the news there. “Wildings” are commonplace, where large groups of predominately black and often underage youth beat people, rob stores as a group and generally act awful. Basically the same thing you see in the above video.

With the implementation of concealed carry in IL I think it is only a matter of time before the perpetrators of a “wilding” make a fatal miscalculation in their victim selection process.

The media shitshow that will follow such an incident will probably be just as appalling as the circumstances of the incident itself.
[/quote]

Ya, this happens in Baltimore too.

Cue the flying pigs.

OVER the past two decades, the majority of Americans in a country deeply divided over gun control have coalesced behind a single proposition: The sale of assault weapons should be banned.

That idea was one of the pillars of the Obama administration?s plan to curb gun violence, and it remains popular with the public. In a poll last December, 59 percent of likely voters said they favor a ban.

But in the 10 years since the previous ban lapsed, even gun control advocates acknowledge a larger truth: The law that barred the sale of assault weapons from 1994 to 2004 made little difference.

It turns out that big, scary military rifles don?t kill the vast majority of the 11,000 Americans murdered with guns each year. Little handguns do.

In 2012, only 322 people were murdered with any kind of rifle, F.B.I. data shows.

The continuing focus on assault weapons stems from the media?s obsessive focus on mass shootings, which disproportionately involve weapons like the AR-15, a civilian version of the military M16 rifle. This, in turn, obscures some grim truths about who is really dying from gunshots.

Annually, 5,000 to 6,000 black men are murdered with guns. Black men amount to only 6 percent of the population. Yet of the 30 Americans on average shot to death each day, half are black males.

It was much the same in the early 1990s when Democrats created and then banned a category of guns they called ?assault weapons.? America was then suffering from a spike in gun crime and it seemed like a problem threatening everyone. Gun murders each year had been climbing: 11,000, then 13,000, then 17,000.

Democrats decided to push for a ban of what seemed like the most dangerous guns in America: assault weapons, which were presented by the media as the gun of choice for drug dealers and criminals, and which many in law enforcement wanted to get off the streets.

This politically defined category of guns ? a selection of rifles, shotguns and handguns with ?military-style? features ? only figured in about 2 percent of gun crimes nationwide before the ban.

Handguns were used in more than 80 percent of murders each year, but gun control advocates had failed to interest enough of the public in a handgun ban. Handguns were the weapons most likely to kill you, but they were associated by the public with self-defense. (In 2008, the Supreme Court said there was a constitutional right to keep a loaded handgun at home for self-defense.)

Banning sales of military-style weapons resonated with both legislators and the public: Civilians did not need to own guns designed for use in war zones.

On Sept. 13, 1994, President Bill Clinton signed an assault weapons ban into law. It barred the manufacture and sale of new guns with military features and magazines holding more than 10 rounds. But the law allowed those who already owned these guns ? an estimated 1.5 million of them ? to keep their weapons.

The policy proved costly. Mr. Clinton blamed the ban for Democratic losses in 1994. Crime fell, but when the ban expired, a detailed study found no proof that it had contributed to the decline.

The ban did reduce the number of assault weapons recovered by local police, to 1 percent from roughly 2 percent.

?Should it be renewed, the ban?s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement,? a Department of Justice-funded evaluation concluded.

Still, the majority of Americans continued to support a ban on assault weapons.

One reason: The use of these weapons may be rare over all, but they?re used frequently in the gun violence that gets the most media coverage, mass shootings.

The criminologist James Alan Fox at Northeastern University estimates that there have been an average of 100 victims killed each year in mass shootings over the past three decades. That?s less than 1 percent of gun homicide victims.

But these acts of violence in schools and movie theaters have come to define the problem of gun violence in America.

Most Americans do not know that gun homicides have decreased by 49 percent since 1993 as violent crime also fell, though rates of gun homicide in the United States are still much higher than those in other developed nations. A Pew survey conducted after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., found that 56 percent of Americans believed wrongly that the rate of gun crime was higher than it was 20 years ago.

Even as homicide rates have held steady or declined for most Americans over the last decade, for black men the rate has sometimes risen. But it took a handful of mass shootings in 2012 to put gun control back on Congress?s agenda.

AFTER Sandy Hook, President Obama introduced an initiative to reduce gun violence. He laid out a litany of tragedies: the children of Newtown, the moviegoers of Aurora, Colo. But he did not mention gun violence among black men.

To be fair, the president?s first legislative priority after Sandy Hook was universal background checks, a measure that might have shrunk the market for illegal guns used in many urban shootings. But Republicans in Congress killed that effort. The next proposal on his list was reinstating and ?strengthening? bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. It also went nowhere.

?We spent a whole bunch of time and a whole bunch of political capital yelling and screaming about assault weapons,? Mayor Mitchell J. Landrieu of New Orleans said. He called it a ?zero sum political fight about a symbolic weapon.?

Mr. Landrieu and Mayor Michael A. Nutter of Philadelphia are founders of Cities United, a network of mayors trying to prevent the deaths of young black men. ?This is not just a gun issue, this is an unemployment issue, it?s a poverty issue, it?s a family issue, it?s a culture of violence issue,? Mr. Landrieu said.

More than 20 years of research funded by the Justice Department has found that programs to target high-risk people or places, rather than targeting certain kinds of guns, can reduce gun violence.

David M. Kennedy, the director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, argues that the issue of gun violence can seem enormous and intractable without first addressing poverty or drugs. A closer look at the social networks of neighborhoods most afflicted, he says, often shows that only a small number of men drive most of the violence. Identify them and change their behavior, and it?s possible to have an immediate impact.

Working with Professor Kennedy, and building on successes in other cities, New Orleans is now identifying the young men most at risk and intervening to help them get jobs. How well this strategy will work in the long term remains to be seen.

But it?s an approach based on an honest assessment of the real numbers

I’m… Almost in tears over here…

The Gray Lady… She wrote a (mostly) good and informative piece… Only based Republicans once, and over all did a good job of sticking up the anti’s ass.

Amazing.

It had to kill them to publish this piece.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
It had to kill them to publish this piece.[/quote]

If someone doesn’t get fired for this I’d be surprised.

The Washington Times reported this week about the Obama administration’s quiet move to force gun buyers to disclose their race and ethnicity.

More from the report below:

With little fanfare, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in 2012 amended its Form 4473 - the transactional record the government requires gun purchasers and sellers to fill out when buying a firearm - to identify buyers as either Hispanic, Latino or not. Then a buyer must check his or her race: Indian, Asian, black, Pacific Islander or white.

The amendment is causing a headache for gun retailers, as each box needs to be checked off or else it’s an ATF violation - severe enough for the government to shut a business down. Many times people skip over the Hispanic/Latino box and only check their race, or vice versa - both of which are federal errors that can be held against the dealer.

Requiring the race and ethnic information of gun buyers is not required by federal law and provides little law enforcement value, legal experts say. And gun industry officials worry about how the information is being used and whether it constitutes an unnecessary intrusion on privacy.

Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano was asked this morning whether this new policy is an infringement on the rights of Americans. He explained that both the First and Second Amendments come into play in this matter.

Napolitano said that the government cannot compel a person to speak - in this case, write down their race and ethnicity on a form.

“This is called forced speech. The First Amendment says Congress can’t infringe speech. The courts have interpreted that to mean the government can’t also compel you to speak,” said Napolitano, adding that the government does not have the “lawful, moral authority” to ask these questions to gun buyers.

He argued no American citizen should have to tell the government about their ethnic background when trying to exercise their Second Amendment right. The creation of the forms stems from the fact that the government wants to know who has a gun, he said.

“It’s none of the government’s business who has guns. It’s none of the government’s business the race or ethnicity of the people who want to buy guns and it’s certainly none of the government’s business to ask you why you want the gun. … Why do we need the government’s permission to exercise our Second Amendment rights?” he asked.

Watch his full analysis above.

Thank goodness for the good guy with the gun

https://news.yahoo.com/police-woman-beheaded-oklahoma-workplace-144459291.html

This might get a bit more interesting.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Thank goodness for the good guy with the gun

https://news.yahoo.com/police-woman-beheaded-oklahoma-workplace-144459291.html

This might get a bit more interesting. [/quote]

Don’t tell SM this, I just got done saying shit like this doesn’t happen very often in America…


Taken from: Watervliet, NY Asks Pistol Permit Applicants for Facebook Passwords. Or Not. - The Truth About Guns

"…the Chief said he uses the form to gather the applicantâ??s Facebook deets during a face-to-face interview. Why make note of the password? â??We donâ??t,â?? he insisted. â??We ask the applicant to log on to Facebook in front of us.â?? So the Chief scrolls through the applicantâ??s Facebook page searching for . . . ?

â??Pages theyâ??re looked at, friends â?? anything that reflects on the character of the applicant.â?? I pointed out that thereâ??s a big difference [in terms of privacy] between viewing a Facebook page as a friend and viewing it as the owner. The Chief wasnâ??t bothered by the distinction.

When I pointed out that checking someoneâ??s Facebook page (in front of them no less) was unnecessary, unfair and unconstitutional, the Chief said â??Iâ??m just the middleman hereâ?? and â??it is what it is.â?? He said the information gets sent to a Superior Court judge who makes the final decision. The Facebook search is, in fact, the judiciaryâ??s idea. I mean, requirement.

I asked the Chief what would happen if someone refused to log on to their Facebook account. â??Iâ??d just note the fact and send it to the Judges.â??"

Open question:

If you’re not 100% sure you will be able to put one center mass on a bad guy, do you have a responsibility to NOT carry even if you can legally?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Open question:

If you’re not 100% sure you will be able to put one center mass on a bad guy, do you have a responsibility to NOT carry even if you can legally?

[/quote]

I’m not sure that statement ever applies to anyone in real-life circumstances.

For a non-answer, I’ll start by stating that the NRA instructor should not give you a passing grade if you cannot demonstrate the basic proficiency of hitting a silhouette target at 7 yards with a handgun.

No course certification, no permit (in my state).

For an actual answer, I will say “no”. Marksmanship has little to do with judgement, which I would argue has much more influence of how a hypothetical defensive scenario might play out.

That said, if someone is truly inept with a firearm, they should have the judgement to conclude that carrying one may not be a good decision. If you can’t hold the gun without your hands shaking, or if you are blind, or if you cannot keep your eyes open when pulling the trigger, you should probably reconsider your defensive equipment.