I would also say there are more really good guitar players who actually know what they are doing than there are the few who know very little theory at all.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
You don’t *have to read music, but you should.
You don’t *have to have to learn all the notes on the fretboard, but you should.
You don’t *have to know intervals and chord inversions, but you should.
You don’t *have to know how to construct scales, but you should.
You don’t *have to know the same chords in several positions, but you should.
You don’t *have to know how to finger pick, but you should.
You don’t *have to know theory, but you should.
You don’t *have to know the modes, but you should.
You don’t *have to practice 5 hours a day, but you should.
HOWEVER you HAVE to develop your ear so that at very minimum, you can learn the songs you want to play, or translate the original music that your brain develops. Oh, and you’ll need to know where those tones are on the fretboard.
All that other stuff REALLY helps, though 
IMO beginners can’t go wrong with Epiphones or Mexican Fenders. For more crunch, the Deans, Schecters, and the low end Jacksons seem like nice guitars.
Personally, I’m saving my pennies for a Johnny Hiland PRS ;)[/quote]
I agree with this but would say that the best way to learn on your own is to learn songs by listening to them. THEN, once you know what the guy was doing on the song learn why it works and what he was doing musically (theory). Once you learn that you can translate that concept to any song you want, and presto, you have a usable chop.
An unusable chop is a guy who learns a song or lick, but has no idea why it sounds like it does or why it works. I see these guys all the time. They play these cool licks but then can’t play shit when the song is different than what they learned.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Rattler wrote:
Real men play drums, cuz we’re good with our sticks!
leaves
Fuck yeah! I am going to get my daughter the Gene Krupa starter kit when she turns five.[/quote]
Light weight. I got my youngest son his first set just before he turned two.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
I agree with this but would say that the best way to learn on your own is to learn songs by listening to them. THEN, once you know what the guy was doing on the song learn why it works and what he was doing musically (theory). Once you learn that you can translate that concept to any song you want, and presto, you have a usable chop.
[/quote]
That’s how I learned. Funny story-- When I got my first guitar, I bought a bunch of “Guitar Player” and the now defunct (I think) “Guitar For The Practicing Musician” magazines and tried learning the songs from listening.
Shortly after, I took about 6 lessons-- my teacher was trying to get me to learn to read, like Mel Bay or some such. He would play the song, and I instantly heard it in my head and figured it out when I got home (by ear). One day, I messed up and he told me to start again, but half way through the song, not the beginning. He knew-- he said he was watching my eyes and they weren’t ‘reading’…
I eventually taught myself to read, but I’m not very good at it. I play completely by ear, and I know my theory and how to get a certain mood in any key-- that’s the important thing at least for me-- having the ear and the technical ability to improv in any mode/style/key. That translates across all genres.
Right on Phrygian. My friend put DiMarzio Tone Zone and Super Distortion in an RG1570 and it sounds pretty sick. I use the 81/85 set with the 81 in the bridge, its totally metal. Schecter’s are good too, but the guitars are just big. The necks are fat and the bodies are thick … I can deal with the heavy body but the neck is too clunky for my tastes. Ibanez has some of the thinnest necks around, my LTD is somewhere in between.
[quote]njrusmc wrote:
Right on Phrygian. My friend put DiMarzio Tone Zone and Super Distortion in an RG1570 and it sounds pretty sick. I use the 81/85 set with the 81 in the bridge, its totally metal. Schecter’s are good too, but the guitars are just big. The necks are fat and the bodies are thick … I can deal with the heavy body but the neck is too clunky for my tastes. Ibanez has some of the thinnest necks around, my LTD is somewhere in between.[/quote]
I personally love Schecter seven strings. I have a Damien 7 and I honestly dig everything about it.
Of course, I only play seven strings and I am primarily a bassist, so maybe my opinion of neck width is biased.
[quote]sen say wrote:
boyscout wrote:
Check it out: the 7 modes:
Ionian(major)
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian(minor)
Locrian
I felt my soloing abilities really open up when I learned all 7 modes…if I know what key the song is in that we’re playing, I can fly all over the fretboard…knowing the patterns for each mode means I’m not stuck in any one position…
As far as sounding the same…the different modes naturally emphasize different tones than each other…so…if I’m playing in the key of E…I might start out in E Ionian and then move up to F#Dorian…the phrases I play in each mode will sound much different…
The 7 modes can be played 3 notes per string over all six strings so you only really need to memorize 7 patterns…
I have seen teachers though that ram this stuff down students throats whether or not they’re ready/interested in it…[/quote]
Just learning the major scales doesn’t stick you in one position, you start to develop a mental map of the entire fretboard after a while. Then patterns are almost useless except as technical exercises.
Just for clarification, if you are soloing over something in E and start on E ionian, then move to F# dorian, you’re not playing in modes. You’re just moving the key of E around the fret board the whole time. Not that doing so isn’t useful, but you will have used no different modal sounds over a chord.
HOWEVER, if you want to “sound” modal, you simply treat the tonic chord (I) as if it’s a different chord. So if I wanted to play with a lydian sound over something in E, I would play B major. Treat E as IV in the key of B.
[quote]Phyrgian wrote:
the only “issues” I have with it are the bolt on neck (I would prefer neck thru, although it doesn’t hinder it’s playing at all for me) and the trem is floating which makes for less sustain.
[/quote]
I don’t understand why bolt on is a problem. Not that I don’t like neck thru and I understand the supposed advantages of sustain/sound quality, but a well built bolt on still makes for a great guitar. My Kramer Nightswan (1989) has a bolt on and floating trem (original floyd rose) and has a great sound and sustain.
I like ESP guitar, though. I don’t think it really matters what a beginner starts on. A mexi strat with a humbucker in the bridge and 2 single coils would give a lot of variability for the beginner. Pop some new electronics in there after a year or so, and you have a pretty great guitar.
[quote]boyscout wrote:
HOWEVER, if you want to “sound” modal, you simply treat the tonic chord (I) as if it’s a different chord. So if I wanted to play with a lydian sound over something in E, I would play B major. Treat E as IV in the key of B.
[/quote]
I love soloing in the Lydian, especially long legato passages. Think “Dancin Days- Led Zeppelin”. The quintessential rock-Lydian song 
Wow, boyscout… been a long time since I’ve seen a circle of fifths chart (your avatar). A REALLY long time. Seems like theory was lifetimes ago.
[quote]Practice made malmsteen a better player and theory just added to his musical vocabulary whether it sounds good or not.
That is precisely the point of sounding good verses being technically proficient.
If you read the last statement of my first post I stated that there are very few virtuosos. In fact, Django practiced hours on end and developed his ears at very early age. He could have cared less about theory and it certainly had nothing to do with his genius manoeuvring.[/quote]
1)What is this statement even supposed to mean? Practise makes everyone a better player. Theory was part of Malsteem’s practise. And it made him a better player.
2)Nope, this is not the point about sounding good versus technical proficiency. Malsteem is of one the few shredders whos note choice and general musicianship is of a very high calibre (another that comes to mind is Jason Becker). Thoery has only helped him in this.
3)I agree with you. Django is a virtuoso, he also played by ear… I don’t see how this effects my point.
Hey SteelyD.
Are you a fan of the Dan?
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
boyscout wrote:
HOWEVER, if you want to “sound” modal, you simply treat the tonic chord (I) as if it’s a different chord. So if I wanted to play with a lydian sound over something in E, I would play B major. Treat E as IV in the key of B.
I love soloing in the Lydian, especially long legato passages. Think “Dancin Days- Led Zeppelin”. The quintessential rock-Lydian song ;)[/quote]
I’m a fan of mixolydian myself. When I write it tends to be some spacey fingerstyle acoustic style music. And I get really interested in certain intervals–the minor 7th being one of them. So I find myself playing around mixolydian a lot–just sounds so cool when used out of the “must be played over a dominant 7th chord” context.
I love led Zeppelin.
[quote]LowfatMatt wrote:
Wow, boyscout… been a long time since I’ve seen a circle of fifths chart (your avatar). A REALLY long time. Seems like theory was lifetimes ago.[/quote]
Glad I could bring back (terrifying) memories.
[quote]LowfatMatt wrote:
Wow, boyscout… been a long time since I’ve seen a circle of fifths chart (your avatar). A REALLY long time. Seems like theory was lifetimes ago.[/quote]
I swear my music teacher must have it tattooed on his back. I see you’re a messhugah fan too, awesome. I love destroy erase improve.
NJ, My eq is pretty flat (maybe a little extra mids/bass) so the 85 works better in the bridge. The 81 is a little more “scooped” which I think sounds better for clean passages.
The main reason I didn’t get the hellraiser is I already had a les paul with emgs and I didn’t want two pretty similar necks and pickups.
And what boyscout said is completely true, E Ionian and F# Dorian are the same notes so if you play them over the same thing it will sound like the same, just in a different position.
What I like about modes is if you know the key you can go with a couple different “moods” so if I’m in F# minor I might go F# Dorian for a jazzy/bluesy sound or F# Phyrgian for that outside sound. Good stuff.
edit: so what do you all have for rigs?
[quote]LowfatMatt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Rattler wrote:
Real men play drums, cuz we’re good with our sticks!
leaves
Fuck yeah! I am going to get my daughter the Gene Krupa starter kit when she turns five.
Light weight. I got my youngest son his first set just before he turned two.[/quote]
Boys are more advanced than girls when it comes to banging on shit.
Hunter S. Thompson sends you love from beyond the grave…
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Hey SteelyD.
Are you a fan of the Dan?[/quote]
Big time! Although, ironically, my T-Nation handle is completely unrelated to Steely Dan!
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
I agree with this but would say that the best way to learn on your own is to learn songs by listening to them. THEN, once you know what the guy was doing on the song learn why it works and what he was doing musically (theory).
Once you learn that you can translate that concept to any song you want, and presto, you have a usable chop.
That’s how I learned. Funny story-- When I got my first guitar, I bought a bunch of “Guitar Player” and the now defunct (I think) “Guitar For The Practicing Musician” magazines and tried learning the songs from listening.
Shortly after, I took about 6 lessons-- my teacher was trying to get me to learn to read, like Mel Bay or some such. He would play the song, and I instantly heard it in my head and figured it out when I got home (by ear).
One day, I messed up and he told me to start again, but half way through the song, not the beginning. He knew-- he said he was watching my eyes and they weren’t ‘reading’…
I eventually taught myself to read, but I’m not very good at it. I play completely by ear, and I know my theory and how to get a certain mood in any key-- that’s the important thing at least for me-- having the ear and the technical ability to improv in any mode/style/key. That translates across all genres.[/quote]
I’m the same way. I think reading is good, but you can’t get by very well if you can’t hear it and know what you are hearing.
Weird. Is there a good story behind it? Does “The Naked Lunch” come into it?
I’ve been listening to Becker and Fagen almost daily for two years… no signs of slowing down yet. They’re also the reason I got into Jazz.
Always good to see someone who likes music outside the mainstream. Who else do you listen to?