Guaranteed Cure for Racism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

I don’t have much time again and I owe Thunderbolt a response in another thread and Brother Chris a response to his e-mail.

Yes… I most assuredly, most humbly and most enthusiastically thanked the people who were God’s instruments of Grace in these instances. In the case of the lady who paid my mortgage, who was a believer before I was born, SHE praised and thanked God that she had been given the means both to obey his leading and be a blessing to her brother.

As I have said many times. If anybody ever cares which precise version of a Christian doctrine I believe, there is a very high probability that the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646 is it. The most frighteningly BIBLICAL piece of human literature ever penned in one place. 301 redirect

Chew on chapter 2 section 1 for a minute:

[quote]CHAPTER II.
Of God, and of the Holy Trinity.

I. There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute, working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory, most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him; and withal most just and terrible in his judgments; hating all sin; and who will by no means clear the guilty. >>>>>>>[/quote]And then chapter 3 sections 1 and 2:

[quote]CHAPTER III.
Of God’s Eternal Decree.

I. God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, as that which would come to pass, upon such conditions. >>>>>>>[/quote] Section 3 of chapter 3 is where the sparks REALLY start to fly.

342

[quote]GCF wrote:
I know a devoutly religious couple who prayed constantly for a healthy baby. Baby was born down syndrome with a hole in his heart. Lived a miserable two years. Was God punishing them or was he too busy helping my stepson find a piece of lego?[/quote]

The two things are no more related than the many decisions that you make during the course of a day. As the Bible tells us “he gives and takes away.” God is NOT a magic genie granting everyone their wish. He is an omnipotent God who moves as he wishes in the direction that he wishes. Not quite the God of Hollywood, but then that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

343

GCF,

I know you’re really hung up on that child dying in two years story. But what God knows and what you and I know are chasms apart. There could be any one of hundreds of reasons why God did not grant the prayer of the couple who had the child. Maybe he would have grown up to be a serial killer?

Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was? Maybe the way the couple acts after the child dies wills serve as strong testimony to God? Maybe 1000 other things. That’s where faith comes in my friend.

Try to compare it to a child who wants very much to play in a certain area but his father keeps telling him not to go there. The child doesn’t realize his father knows better. The child does not have the wisdom of his father and there is no way he’ll ever understand why he can’t play in the middle of a freeway, as he sees no harm in it just fun.

If you think you have the brain power to understand the mind of God think again. As the Bible says “his ways are not our ways.” Many times God has a different plan taking place above and beyond any particular man made plan. Once again, that’s why they call it faith, you have it or you don’t. And without faith it is not only impossible to please God, but also impossible to stop second guessing him as well.

Take care,

Zeb

344

[quote]ZEB wrote:
GCF,

I know you’re really hung up on that child dying in two years story. But what God knows and what you and I know are chasms apart. There could be any one of hundreds of reasons why God did not grant the prayer of the couple who had the child. Maybe he would have grown up to be a serial killer? Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was? Maybe the way the couple acts after the child dies wills serve as strong testimony to God? Maybe 1000 other things. That’s where faith comes in my friend.

Try to compare it to a child who wants very much to play in a certain area but his father keeps telling him not to go there. The child doesn’t realize his father knows better. The child does not have the wisdom of his father and there is no way he’ll ever understand why he can’t play in the middle of a freeway, as he sees no harm in it just fun.

If you think you have the brain power to understand the mind of God think again. As the Bible says “his ways are not our ways.” Many times God has a different plan taking place above and beyond any particular man made plan. Once again, that’s why they call it faith, you have it or you don’t. And without faith it is not only impossible to please God, but also impossible to stop second guessing him as well.

Take care,

Zeb
[/quote]

Come on!

Claiming that ‘what god knows compared to what we know is chasms apart’, doesn’t work.

How can you know that God knows more than we, without knowing what he knows?

Furthermore, if his ways are not our ways, then it is entirely possible that he is what we could describe as heartless/uncaring or downright nasty with a habit of toying with humans for his own perverse pleasure.

345

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
GCF,

I know you’re really hung up on that child dying in two years story. But what God knows and what you and I know are chasms apart. There could be any one of hundreds of reasons why God did not grant the prayer of the couple who had the child. Maybe he would have grown up to be a serial killer? Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was? Maybe the way the couple acts after the child dies wills serve as strong testimony to God? Maybe 1000 other things. That’s where faith comes in my friend.

Try to compare it to a child who wants very much to play in a certain area but his father keeps telling him not to go there. The child doesn’t realize his father knows better. The child does not have the wisdom of his father and there is no way he’ll ever understand why he can’t play in the middle of a freeway, as he sees no harm in it just fun.

If you think you have the brain power to understand the mind of God think again. As the Bible says “his ways are not our ways.” Many times God has a different plan taking place above and beyond any particular man made plan. Once again, that’s why they call it faith, you have it or you don’t. And without faith it is not only impossible to please God, but also impossible to stop second guessing him as well.

Take care,

Zeb
[/quote]

Come on!

Claiming that ‘what god knows compared to what we know is chasms apart’, doesn’t work.

How can you know that God knows more than we, without knowing what he knows?

Furthermore, if his ways are not our ways, then it is entirely possible that he is what we could describe as heartless/uncaring or downright nasty with a habit of toying with humans for his own perverse pleasure.
[/quote]

I’ve read the scripture many times and those things are very clearly represented. As I said that’s where faith comes in. You either have it or you don’t. You don’t and this stuff might annoy you. I know how you feel because I used to be like that many years ago.

Tell me, have you ever read the Bible? I mean the entire Bible, every word.

Edit-It amazes me the number of people who condemn the Bible who have never read it.

346

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
GCF,

I know you’re really hung up on that child dying in two years story. But what God knows and what you and I know are chasms apart. There could be any one of hundreds of reasons why God did not grant the prayer of the couple who had the child. Maybe he would have grown up to be a serial killer? Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was? Maybe the way the couple acts after the child dies wills serve as strong testimony to God? Maybe 1000 other things. That’s where faith comes in my friend.

Try to compare it to a child who wants very much to play in a certain area but his father keeps telling him not to go there. The child doesn’t realize his father knows better. The child does not have the wisdom of his father and there is no way he’ll ever understand why he can’t play in the middle of a freeway, as he sees no harm in it just fun.

If you think you have the brain power to understand the mind of God think again. As the Bible says “his ways are not our ways.” Many times God has a different plan taking place above and beyond any particular man made plan. Once again, that’s why they call it faith, you have it or you don’t. And without faith it is not only impossible to please God, but also impossible to stop second guessing him as well.

Take care,

Zeb
[/quote]

Come on!

Claiming that ‘what god knows compared to what we know is chasms apart’, doesn’t work.

How can you know that God knows more than we, without knowing what he knows?

Furthermore, if his ways are not our ways, then it is entirely possible that he is what we could describe as heartless/uncaring or downright nasty with a habit of toying with humans for his own perverse pleasure.
[/quote]

I’ve read the scripture many times and those things are very clearly represented. As I said that’s where faith comes in. You either have it or you don’t. You don’t and this stuff might annoy you. I know how you feel because I used to be like that many years ago.

Tell me, have you ever read the Bible? I mean the entire Bible, every word.[/quote]

Nope, not read the entire thing, and I don’t need to. Used to be a devout muslim, and had read every word of the Quran.

Have studied many aspects of it through my history class and attending divinity lectures.

Knowing and believing are two entirely different things. You can believe in something without knowing that it exists. I believe in a god, but this is purely because I was brought up to. Do I KNOW god exists? Nope - I’m almost certain he/she doesn’t, and I certainly know that a christian god can’t exist. Also severely hope that a muslim god doesn’t exist…

By the way, what does faith have to do with the bible?

347

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.

348

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

I thought about responding to him, but concluded that he must have been joking. No one can actually believe that surely? I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt - hopefully he’ll explain that it was just a shit joke.

349

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:
I certainly know that a christian god can’t exist. Also severely hope that a muslim god doesn’t exist…[/quote]

How do you know that?

350

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

Not at all horrible, I just understand that certain things consumed over a period of time can have an effect on off spring. Not only are you not a spiritual guy, but you are apparently not a science guy either.

What is it you do now? Oh yeah, leave funny pictures on message boards.

351

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

Not at all horrible, I just understand that certain things consumed over a period of time can have an effect on off spring. Not only are you not a spiritual guy, but you are apparently not a science guy either.

What is it you do now? Oh yeah, leave funny pictures on message boards.

352

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

I thought about responding to him, but concluded that he must have been joking. No one can actually believe that surely? I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt - hopefully he’ll explain that it was just a shit joke.[/quote]

You need to get busy and explain how you know that there is no “Christian God”. Or is that a joke?

353

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

Not at all horrible, I just understand that certain things consumed over a period of time can have an effect on off spring. Not only are you not a spiritual guy, but you are apparently not a science guy either.

What is it you do now? Oh yeah, leave funny pictures on message boards.[/quote]

Congenital problems are the result of genetic abnormalities, the intrauterine (uterus) environment, errors of morphogenesis, or a chromosomal abnormalities.

You are horrible.

354

[quote]

You too, have an unrelated pic.

:D[/quote]

Lol. Thanks.

355

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]

You too, have an unrelated pic.

:D[/quote]

Lol. Thanks.[/quote]

You know, I think that’s where the producers of the movie should have gone with that.

356

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe the mother and father did things to their bodies (against Gods will) that directly caused this child to be born as he was?[/quote]

You are horrible.

Wow.[/quote]

Not at all horrible, I just understand that certain things consumed over a period of time can have an effect on off spring. Not only are you not a spiritual guy, but you are apparently not a science guy either.

What is it you do now? Oh yeah, leave funny pictures on message boards.[/quote]

Congenital problems are the result of genetic abnormalities, the intrauterine (uterus) environment, errors of morphogenesis, or a chromosomal abnormalities.

You are horrible.[/quote]

LOL, congrats man you’ve taken this whole hate thing to another level. You’re actually arguing that certain drugs (and alcohol) could not be responsible for birth defects. Try not to allow your hate to get the better of you, you’re looking bad. I don’t think there are nearly enough comical pictures to post to get you out of this one.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=birth+defects+causes&FORM=MHEGEN&PUBL=Google&CREA=userid1743go4fd87f481aff800cb49682904734e61b

357

The case he put forward specifically mentioned a hole in the heart (presumably Atrial Septal Defect) and Down syndrome.

What causes those?

Oh right, Down syndrome is genetic, and ASD is a known to occur in children with Down Syndrome.

Again, you are fucking horrible.

358

there is better (and less horrible) way to “prove” God’s goodness than speculating about the sins of Its victims.

i would suggest Leibniz’s theodikee.

359

[quote]Makavali wrote:
The case he put forward specifically mentioned a hole in the heart (presumably Atrial Septal Defect) and Down syndrome.

What causes those?

Oh right, Down syndrome is genetic, and ASD is a known to occur in children with Down Syndrome.

Again, you are fucking horrible.[/quote]

You didn’t even read the material that I posted. A congenital defect can be caused by a multitude of things. ONE of those things can indeed be the use of certain drugs:

Here you go I’ll post it here so you don’t have to go digging, I know that can be time consuming I’ve been there:

There are many other reputable web sites which state the same thing. Really why are we even having this conversation? A mother can indeed effect the health of her baby by her actions. Many people are quick to blame God when in fact what is happening is of their own doing.

360

[quote]GCF wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Of course you do, most people don’t like babies dying. It is a sad situation, which I wish on no one. However, I don’t think you can really say God killed the baby, but he presents you the opportunity of a dead loved one to become closer to Him. Kind of like, instead of divorcing your husband because you have a miscarriage it is an opportunity to become closer to the loved ones you still have and cherish them deeper.
[/quote]

BC, again thanks for the reply.

I guess it has helped me see where you are coming from although I still find it hard to believe that people go for this stuff.

Take the above for example. I wouldn’t say God killed the baby. But if the child had been born healthy you would have gone, well done your prayers were answered, God gave you a beautiful baby. But you don’t say your prayers weren’t answered God is angry with you.[/quote]

No, sometimes bad things happen. God isn’t a puppeteer, but he can do some work.

I blame God for a lot of stuff. I don’t know if the truck was booked weeks in advanced. So what if it didn’t materialize out of nothing? God’s miracles don’t need to all be supernatural. And, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be claimed as divine intervention when a truck full of food arrives to feed the poor.

Why would a delivery truck arrive, unasked for, just as the pantry was emptied? I don’t know, but it is pretty awesome. By the way, I don’t believe in coincidences, or I think that people place to many events under the title of coincidence.

Well when I have rarely lost something, I don’t have much possession wise. But, when I do, I see it as a moment that I need to become closer to God. When I really needed something and I didn’t get it, well I asked myself why I didn’t try harder. Or, if I tried hard and didn’t get it asked God why he abandoned me when I needed it. Which, really I don’t think I have encountered and the time I have felt that way I was just being selfish.

[quote]
I would’ve thought that good coincidences would be a more rational explanation.[/quote]

I am an optimist, so the whole dying/losing/leaving stuff isn’t doom and gloom for me. I’m more of the let’s party, someone’s dead.