Growing Up in a Religious Family

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[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]chimera182 wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:
Why fight atheism? It’s inevitable that everyone will be an atheist in a couple hundred years.
How many atheists were there 200 years ago?? a handfull? How many were there 50 years ago? Maybe just those at the higher levels of science, and now how many are there? As high as 80% of some countries are atheists. Some countries in the middle east will no doubt take longer to come out of fantasy land, but it WILL happen…eventually.[/quote]

…except Catholicism, Ultra-Orthodox (Jewbacca), and most religions are increasing in members…interesting…atheist increasing? I think not.[/quote]

Here’s a gallup poll from May 2010 that says otherwise, using percentages. The percentage of people in the US with no religious identity has more than tripled since the 50s.

The fact that religions are increasing in numbers means absolutely nothing. Human population is growing exponentially. Its the percentages that matter.

And the guy trying to suggest that atheism is like a puppy that is going to stop growing, what is going to stop it? Scienctific advancements have been the catalyst that started this trend. Unless some 2012 catastrophe sets us all back 1000 years, the trend is going to continue.

There are many, many studies that correlate atheism and ones level of education. Same with IQ. The more educated you are, the more likely you are to be atheist. As levels of education continue to increase, so will the prevalence of atheism.

And yes, I realize that correlation does not imply causation, but unless you have an explanation for why smarter people tend to be atheist, youre just blowing smoke.
[/quote]

“Smart” people tend to lack wisdom. “Smart” people tend to lack common sense. And, why would you suggest that science would draw people away from religion, when Muslims as well as Catholics invest large amounts of money into science? I think the atheist are scared that their numbers are going to start going down. So, now they’re throwing shit around. It’s funny how much an atheist needs others to join them when they proclaim individual reasoning, but claim at the same time religion uses “fear” to control people.[/quote]

Lol, Mr Ad Hominem Logic Man making retarded blanket statements. Smart people lack wisdom and common sense? Ok, show me the studies.

Science draws people away from religion because it debunks everything they hold sacred. We know Adam and Eve didnt exist. We know evolution created humans. We know the earth is billions of years old. The bible is supposed to be the word of God and now we know much of it to be false. Its easy to see why once people start doubting parts, they start doubting the whole.

The rest of your post is weak and I’m not even going to respond.[/quote]

Why billions. Why not trillions, or only millions?

Other things evolution can’t answer:

Why atoms are structured like they are

Emotion

Morality

[/quote]
There’s no evolutionary advantage to being able to figure out the orbit of the moon, at least not directly. [/quote]

Unless we’re supposed to go there…
[/quote]

True, our genes must know that eventually we’ll run out of cheese here on Earth.

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A thought about the correlation between level of education and atheism: just because one is highly educated does not mean that one is an independent thinker or open minded. There is the possibility that higher education is associated with atheism not because of increased knowledge, but simply from increased interaction with atheistic professors.

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The only reason higher educated people have less kids is because they have an early realization of how damn expensive they are.

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I’m sorry, I must have passed over your reply.

[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
I get my branches of Japanese Buddhism mixed up from time to time, but Jodo-shinshu is an offshoot of Pure Land buddhism, no? I know that, even amongst Pure Land branches, there is debate over whether the ‘‘pure land’’ is a literal place reached after death, or enlightenment reached within this lifetime after taking solace in the Amida Buddha. I do know that they do not worship Amida as a ‘‘God’’, but do believe bodhisatvas physically reincarnate to help others attain enlightenment.[/quote]

Yes, you are correct, Jodo-shinshu is an offshoot of Jodo-shu (Pure Land) Buddhism. It is not my primary sect of interest, but I’ve read enough to have a superficial knowledge of it.

Here is a bit from the English website for Jodo-shu ( http://www.jodo.org/about_plb/what_plb.html )

[quote]
However, when we come to Pure Land Buddhism, God and Amida Buddha seem to be the same. Both are believed in as a savior by devotees. Among the branches of Buddhism, the Pure Land school particularly emphasizes ‘‘faith.’’ Devotees of the school realize that they do not attain enlightenment by their own power, but by simply having faith in Amida’s power of salvation.

We have buddha-nature within ourselves but we cannot reveal its true nature by ourselves. Its revelation is achieved only by Amida’s grace. Our salvation is entirely dependent upon Amida Buddha. Thus as far as this aspect of Amida as a savior is concerned, we may see that Amida and God appear to be the same, but Amida also has a different aspect from that of God. Amida Buddha is not the creator or ground of all being.[/quote]

To me, as I read this, It does not seem that the Amida Buddha is regarded as merely a metaphor. While there is a distinction made between Buddhas and The Judeo-Christian God, It still seems as if the Amida Buddha is a deity that exists separately from humanity. However, I will admit to not having had any in-depth theological discussions with monks of either of these sects, so it could be that I am misinterpreting something.

Does this surprise you for some reason? I don’t think I would come here and discuss this with you if I didn’t have some idea of what I was talking about.

And of course you are right. It seems as if the website you linked to in your last post is associated with Thai-tradition Buddhism, and from what I know, Buddhism in South-east Asia is usually Theravada Buddhism, which, admittedly, is not my area of study, so I know little about it.

The point I was trying to make is that there are many sects in the Mahayana tradition that treat the Buddhas as deities of sorts in their metaphysics, and that is why Buddhism can be considered a religion.

I wholeheartedly agree.

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[quote]Train4sport wrote:
A thought about the correlation between level of education and atheism: just because one is highly educated does not mean that one is an independent thinker or open minded. There is the possibility that higher education is associated with atheism not because of increased knowledge, but simply from increased interaction with atheistic professors.

[/quote]
I’ve never met anyone who had atheist professors that blabbed about it in the classroom, so I see this as unlikely.

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[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Train4sport wrote:
A thought about the correlation between level of education and atheism: just because one is highly educated does not mean that one is an independent thinker or open minded. There is the possibility that higher education is associated with atheism not because of increased knowledge, but simply from increased interaction with atheistic professors.

[/quote]
I’ve never met anyone who had atheist professors that blabbed about it in the classroom, so I see this as unlikely.[/quote]

It’s a falsehood conjured by the uneducated to make themselves feel better.

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[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Train4sport wrote:
A thought about the correlation between level of education and atheism: just because one is highly educated does not mean that one is an independent thinker or open minded. There is the possibility that higher education is associated with atheism not because of increased knowledge, but simply from increased interaction with atheistic professors.

[/quote]
I’ve never met anyone who had atheist professors that blabbed about it in the classroom, so I see this as unlikely.[/quote]

YOU have never met anyone? Cool, people should just go to for their samples when doing statistics. Okay, I know about 15 professors personally, and have been in 25 classes with about 27 teachers. I know that 4 of those teachers are atheist, three of them because it was a religion class. The other one I found out in a debate with him over Economics. So we’ll ignore the three of them. And, just look at the one.

Unless the subject has to do with morals, religion, &c. then the likely hood of a professor talking about his beliefs is slim. However, as you go up in classes you get closer to your professors. And, to think that a young gullible student would not take on the beliefs of a professor when in such close and frequent contact is gullible in itself.

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:
Why fight atheism? It’s inevitable that everyone will be an atheist in a couple hundred years.
How many atheists were there 200 years ago?? a handfull? How many were there 50 years ago? Maybe just those at the higher levels of science, and now how many are there? As high as 80% of some countries are atheists. Some countries in the middle east will no doubt take longer to come out of fantasy land, but it WILL happen…eventually.[/quote]

I would ask for a source, usually…however, I have high suspicion that your source is either non-credible or there is no source at all.

After all, if more atheist were being indoctrinated wouldn’t the increases in members in the Catholic and Ultra-Orthodox (Jewbacca) religions be slowing, instead of picking up speed?

If I had to guess, since I do not have a source, that other religions are still increasing themselves.[/quote]

The 80% figure I didn’t just pull out of my ass, here it is:

Sadly the USA has the lowest number of atheists in the world, even lower than Isreal… wow.

Culture and environment have a lot to do with being religious. Look at East Germany under communist rule when religion wasn’t emphasised, 88-90% of the country were atheists, In other words when it wasn’t being forced down their throats common sense took over.

“Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish”

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[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:
Why fight atheism? It’s inevitable that everyone will be an atheist in a couple hundred years.
How many atheists were there 200 years ago?? a handfull? How many were there 50 years ago? Maybe just those at the higher levels of science, and now how many are there? As high as 80% of some countries are atheists. Some countries in the middle east will no doubt take longer to come out of fantasy land, but it WILL happen…eventually.[/quote]

I would ask for a source, usually…however, I have high suspicion that your source is either non-credible or there is no source at all.

After all, if more atheist were being indoctrinated wouldn’t the increases in members in the Catholic and Ultra-Orthodox (Jewbacca) religions be slowing, instead of picking up speed?

If I had to guess, since I do not have a source, that other religions are still increasing themselves.[/quote]

The 80% figure I didn’t just pull out of my ass, here it is:

Sadly the USA has the lowest number of atheists in the world, even lower than Isreal… wow.

Culture and environment have a lot to do with being religious. Look at East Germany under communist rule when religion wasn’t emphasised, 88-90% of the country were atheists, In other words when it wasn’t being forced down their throats common sense took over.
[/quote]

In America who forces it down your throat?

It looks like a lot of communist/socialist countries where religion is not just not emphasized but is frowned upon. As well, you should actually read the study, the study had no barring on who is atheist, a lot of “over lap” a lot of people who may have been agnostics or just non-believers.

And it goes on to say (since we are talking about religion and not just God): Sociologically, Communism is as much a religion as other “traditional” religions such as Islam or Christianity, although it promotes (often forcibly) beliefs which would categorize its adherents as atheists.

“Work like it all depends on you, pray like it all depends on God” - St. Augustine.

Here is another quote, “These figures do not necessarily represent the number of people who are identify themselves as “atheists.” For example, in Estonia in 2004, 49% of people surveyed said they did not believe in God. At the same time, only 11% of people in the country identified themselves as atheists.” - http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

Hmmm…I have nothing further at the moment.