[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Word is Obama coming out of the gate asking for a $1.6 trillion tax increase, double the amount of the amount in the original Obama-Boehner deal (need subscription for full story).
[/quote]
True to form he is going to put any deal out of reach of anyone but the most staunch liberal. Boehner will not go for anything even remotely similar to this.
Apparently some left-liberals are already trying to delegitimize any Grand Bargain as a “Great Betrayal” (a la Daily Kos). This is going to be tough.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Apparently some left-liberals are already trying to delegitimize any Grand Bargain as a “Great Betrayal” (a la Daily Kos). This is going to be tough.[/quote]
But, they could stay silent and Obama would still not betray the far left agenda that he is out to push. He needs no encouragement to continue to steer left.
I predict - and frankly hope - that there is a robust bi-partisan package that will go forward, and will likely sideline the Obama-Boehner talks. I heard that a few weeks ago, and it is based in part on the desire to bet a big, bi-partisan deal done and is fueled by the fact that some of its principal backers aren’t going to be around in Congress starting next year, so they can afford to be bold.
If it exists, I’d like to see it hit the news before the Obama-Boehner conference on Friday.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
Theres something to Bill Clinton campaigning as hard as he could for Obama. Its probably being naive but I suspect Bill Clinton has whispered in Obama’s ear not to screw all this up for Hilary in 2016 so Obama may have to come to the table and compromise.[/quote]
Insiders have talked about how Bill doesn’t like Obama, because as of right now, Bill is considered maybe the greatest Dem President in recent times, and he doesn’t want Obama to take that trophy away from him.
Remember what he said about, “years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee…”[/quote]
A little off topic but I thought it was interesting how during the democratic national convention they made believe Jimmy Carter didn’t even exist.
Yeah…[/quote]
Oh no, people never forgot Carter, he was just trumped by the utter stupidity of my Mayor Tony “I feel compelled to leave this city in the middle of a crisis…” Villar.
It would be great to see people at least attempting to work together on the issue. I like gridlock as the government not acting is usually better than the government acting. However we have significant issues that need dealt with and the solutions are going to be quite painful no matter which side of the fence you’re on.
Republicans have shown no desire to work with Obama (they literally made the last 4 years all about opposing anything he did, even when it was stuff they had previously championed (see numerous parts of Obamacare). I haven’t seen a lot of evidence or Democrats wanting to work together either. It’s worse on the right where even talking to Obama (see Chris Christie) is seen as a political liability.
The issue is we have two voices in the conversation. The R voice is pleased when the D voice is drowned out and when things go bad when D’s are in power. It means the R’s are going to get voted back in. And vice versea, We can’t discuss the issues because both sides are too busy tearing each other down and won’t budge.
The answer lies in the middle as Charles Staley says, but both parties have been pushed to the extremes of their sides.
Without prospects for re-election, I am sure Obama can put anything forward he wants, and if the republicans reject it, he can simply say they werent willing to “compromise”. End result, more repubs get voted out of the house and senate and the super majority of blue comes to be once more.
If the republicans “compromise” it will save their political skin in the short term and still damage them long term.
I really dont see them winning this one. As mentioned before, this is about Obama’s ego, not fiscal sense. The ACA during the blue supermajority in lieu of job creation policies was a prime example.
And now it’s become clearer - here we have a “centrist” president purporting to tackle the deficit and the fiscal cliff with 4-to-1 tax-to-spending cut ratio with additional “stimulus” spending tacked on and no commitment that anything will be substantially cut at all…and a permanent increase in the debt limit?
If you can set aside the rank idiocy of those who swore Obama was a “centrist” (that was only for political marketing, in any event, but it was done with such full throat), one thing has become absolutely clear: the president simply does not understand America’s greatest crisis. He simply doesn’t.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
And now it’s become clearer - here we have a “centrist” president purporting to tackle the deficit and the fiscal cliff with 4-to-1 tax-to-spending cut ratio with additional “stimulus” spending tacked on and no commitment that anything will be substantially cut at all…and a permanent increase in the debt limit?
If you can set aside the rank idiocy of those who swore Obama was a “centrist” (that was only for political marketing, in any event, but it was done with such full throat), one thing has become absolutely clear: the president simply does not understand America’s greatest crisis. He simply doesn’t.[/quote]
Well said.
From a political strategy standpoint thought this article made sense, and is likely how the Obama administration views the situation.
“Obama Needs To Live With The Poor Economy He’s Created”
snippet:
"…But Republicans are over a barrel. Unless Republicans and Democrats reach an agreement, the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year. By pushing to extend the tax cuts for everyone except “the rich,” Democrats get to look like champions of middle class tax cuts, and Republicans can be portrayed as caring only about the rich.
And when the economy tanks, the Non-Fox Media will blame Republicans.
The economy will tank because, as you will recall, Obama is still president. Government rules, regulations, restrictions, forms and inspections are about to drown the productive sector. ObamaCare is descending on job creators like a fly swatter on a gnat. Obama has already managed to produce the only “recovery” that is worse than the preceding recession since the Great Depression. And he says, “You ain’t seen nothing yet.”
The coming economic collapse is written in the stars, but if Republicans “obstruct” the Democrats by blocking tax hikes on top-income earners, they’re going to take 100% of the blame for the Obama economy.
You think not? The Non-Fox Media managed to persuade a majority of voters that the last four years of jobless misery was George W. Bush’s fault, having nothing whatsoever to do with Obama.
The media have also managed to brand Republicans as the party of the rich, even as eight of the 10 richest counties voted for Obama. And that doesn’t include pockets of vast wealth in cities ? Nob Hill in San Francisco, the North Shore of Chicago, the Upper East Side of Manhattan and the Back Bay of Boston ? whose residents invariably vote like welfare recipients. Seven of the 10 richest senators are Democrats.
Republicans have a PR problem, not an economic theory problem. That doesn’t mean they should cave on everything, but seeming to fight for “tax cuts for the rich” is a little close to the bone, no matter how tremendously counterproductive such taxes are.
Yes, conservatives can try harder to get the truth out, but as UCLA political science professor Tim Groseclose has shown, media bias already costs Republicans 8 to 10 points in elections. Try arguing a year from now that Republicans’ refusal to agree to tax hikes on the top 2% of income earners ? resulting in an expiration of all the Bush tax cuts ? had nothing to do with the inevitable economic disaster.
Republicans have got to make Obama own the economy.
They should spend from now until the end of the congressional calendar reading aloud from Thomas Sowell, Richard Epstein, John Lott and Milton Friedman and explaining why Obama’s high-tax, massive-regulation agenda spells doom for the nation.
Then some Republicans can say: We think this is a bad idea, but Obama won the election and the media are poised to blame us for whatever happens next, so let’s give his plan a whirl and see how the country likes it…"
Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-on-the-right/112912-635115-media-will-blame-republicans-for-obama-recession.htm#ixzz2DigYuX1e
Bam lacks youtube I guess.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Bam lacks youtube I guess.[/quote]
He lacks a hell of a lot more than that!
Only fair to pass blame around when it is due, and the House GOP “conservatives” have beclowned themselves once again:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336287/inside-meltdown-robert-costa?pg=1
“I don’t want to talk to the people who ruined this, at least right now,” a retiring House member told me. “They donâ??t get it.” Another senior member told me that Boehner was always going to struggle with the whip count since most House conservatives have little interest in seeing the speaker strike any kind of deal. “Boehner was trying to play chess and the caucus was playing checkers,” he said, sighing. “Boehner is willing to lose a pawn for a queen. Iâ??m not sure about the rest.”
Boehner isn’t great - for a national crisis like this, the Speaker of the House needs to be a larger figure with more personality and gravitas, and with a bigger ability to make an argument to the people, and Boehner isn’t that person - but at least he gets it, and he gets that the GOP needed to lead on the compromise to avoid the fiscal cliff. Unfortunately, he surrounded by too many goofballs who need a basic course in negotiation.
Beans,
Our governor Geritol (Jerry) Brown taxed “da fuck” out of the rich here, and it won’t even make a dent in our $17 Billion deficit. He taxed them to death, and it barely raised $6 Billion.
The shit doesn’t work. Not to mention, this fucker’s budget for next year spends even MORE than last year.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Only fair to pass blame around when it is due, and the House GOP “conservatives” have beclowned themselves once again:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336287/inside-meltdown-robert-costa?pg=1
“I don’t want to talk to the people who ruined this, at least right now,” a retiring House member told me. “They donâ??t get it.” Another senior member told me that Boehner was always going to struggle with the whip count since most House conservatives have little interest in seeing the speaker strike any kind of deal. “Boehner was trying to play chess and the caucus was playing checkers,” he said, sighing. “Boehner is willing to lose a pawn for a queen. Iâ??m not sure about the rest.”
Boehner isn’t great - for a national crisis like this, the Speaker of the House needs to be a larger figure with more personality and gravitas, and with a bigger ability to make an argument to the people, and Boehner isn’t that person - but at least he gets it, and he gets that the GOP needed to lead on the compromise to avoid the fiscal cliff. Unfortunately, he surrounded by too many goofballs who need a basic course in negotiation.[/quote]
If he’d taken the deal in 2011, republicans would’ve been much better off and depending on what happens in the near future the country as well. Obama was still willing to compromise by upping the tax break to $400,000 and a revenue/cut ratio more in line with what republicans want compared to what O originally put on the table. Still not as good as 2011 but still a compromise nevertheless.
If nothing happens, it looks like I’ll be produce clerk with a masters degree for at least another 6 more months. I hate politics!
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Beans,
Our governor Geritol (Jerry) Brown taxed “da fuck” out of the rich here, and it won’t even make a dent in our $17 Billion deficit. He taxed them to death, and it barely raised $6 Billion.
The shit doesn’t work. Not to mention, this fucker’s budget for next year spends even MORE than last year. [/quote]
And now you guys are paying for a “train” that isn’t really necessary.
Maximus, you’re like the News on Kentucky Fried Movie:
“California’s Fucked Up, film at 11.”
