I have been toying with a new PCT protocol and it has gotten very good results so far from all who have used it (myself and a few others). I wanted to share it with you all to get reactions and maybe some feedback from those who care to give it a go.
Cycle of aprox 8-12 weeks (preferably with a base of test enth which will be the last compound in your system…ie. drop all other compounds to clear 2 weeks before the test has cleared)…I am currently testing it with a longer cycle of about 16-18 weeks to see if it still works well.
low dose HCG of 200-250iu 3x/w (start week 3 and run until last enth shot (so you would have about 2 weeks where the enth is tapering off where you aren’t taking anything but HGH)
Start HGH on the first week off pinning your enth and run it for as long as the bank account allows (preferably 3+ months but I think 1 kit might even be enough to ensure a good PCT)
run low dose AI throughout to keep E in the low-normal range
add creatine or any other basic legal supps you want during the clearance period, obviously keep protein high and stick with whatever pre/peri/post workout routine you were using during the cycle…I have also thrown in a few weeks of proviron during the clearance time with good results
Do not use Nolva post cycle
Ex
W 1-8 Test Enth 250mg 3x/w
W 1-6 Tren Enth 100mg 3x/w
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg ED (taper down starting at the clearance weeks)
W 3-8 HCG 250iu 3x/w
W 9-x HGH 4iu 3x/w (split into an AM IM shot and pre workout IV or IM shot on heavy lifting days)…if you are new to GH then ramp up to this dose slowly over a few weeks starting at 1.5iu
If you are experienced with slin then you could add it in when you start the GH.
So far everyone who has used this protocol has been very impressed. It has been a seemless recovery with very little to no loss of strength…one guy has even reported a gain 4 weeks after stopping the test (and he had run the exact cycle above so there should have been some pretty heavy suppression of LH/FSH from the cycle).
My reasoning for running off the cycle on just test enth is that the body sees test as a natural hormone and I wanted it to be as natural as possible but enhanced…the only difference is that your test will be elevated which will hopefully result in a slight rebound of your natural test production. Also your HGH will be pulsing well above normal (timed on days when you are going to make the best use of it) which should help to maintain muscle mass and keep a solid pump going in the gym.
If you use proviron during the clearance weeks it is just to keep SHBG low and free up your test so 25-50mg/d should be enough…I ran 25-100mg/d and found 50mg/d to be optimal for me…more than that might be counter productive but I really didn’t see any added benifit over 50mg/d besides looking a little leaner and more vascular.
Any added supps will only benifit you but they aren’t required…basically anything which is going to keep you motivated and improve performance is going to be a good thing and help get you through PCT as smooth as possible.
My reasoning for keep E low-normal is to avoid negative feedback of the HTPA during the cycle or during recovery. I really think this is critical, especially during PCT (preferable to using nolva for me)…if you want to use aromasin then that would be even better because then the taper is automatic but I would avoid letro because you want to keep E in the low-normal range and I think letro is too much.
Using low dose HCG keeps the nuts going but not so much as to desensitize (plus you are going to stop 2 weeks before the gear is out so there will be a period of resensitization during those 2 weeks)…it should be almost as if your body thinks it was on a very short (2-3 week) cycle but with the gains of an 8-12 week cycle. I found my balls shrank a bit during the 2 week clearance but by week 3 they were hanging low and lookin large. There has been zero reports so far of loss of libido and in fact it seems to be the opposite for most.
This is not only surprisingly effective but also surprisingly affordable (as long as you are getting a decent price on the GH).
Give it a try. Tell me what you think. Get jacked.
No bloodwork but that is a good idea. I will try to get some during my next PCT (which should be coming up in the next 4-6 weeks). I already have a scrpit for bloodwork so I guess PCT would be a good time to do it. I will prob test it about 1 month after the injections end.
So far I am just going off reports of how people feel (libido) and what their performance in the gym has been like. that was the key point that strength and mass seem to be staying pretty much where it was on cycle for most who use this approach.
It def needs more testing and scrutiny which is why I opened it up to the board.
Hypogonadism is commonly (?) treated through use of HCG and clomid, with anastrozole thrown in to keep test estrogen levels low.
BONEZ217, what little I know, HCG is the compound that’ll start HPTA function.
Throw clomid in there, FG. I’d also propose you add finasteride, depending on if you’ve experienced old mans’ issues like hair loss and/or prostate hyperplasia. Inhibiting alpha-5 reductase, along with inhibiting test aromatization should make for excellent natural test levels.
[quote]skullbonz90 wrote:
Hypogonadism is commonly (?) treated through use of HCG and clomid, with anastrozole thrown in to keep test estrogen levels low.
BONEZ217, what little I know, HCG is the compound that’ll start HPTA function.
Throw clomid in there, FG. [/quote]
I doubt it.
Primary hypogonadism is treated through exogenous T administration (plus AI + hCG if the doc is wise enough). In many cases secondary hypogonadism is treated with hCG.
And throwing clomid into his idea would just make it ‘standard SERM PCT’ with GH. Nolvadex is better than clomid anyway.
I am by no means declaring this a winner. Just saying I have had good results with it and that I was looking for criticism and perhaps additional experiences for those looking to try a new PCT.
[quote]skullbonz90 wrote:
Hypogonadism is commonly (?) treated through use of HCG and clomid, with anastrozole thrown in to keep test estrogen levels low.
BONEZ217, what little I know, HCG is the compound that’ll start HPTA function.
Throw clomid in there, FG. I’d also propose you add finasteride, depending on if you’ve experienced old mans’ issues like hair loss and/or prostate hyperplasia. Inhibiting alpha-5 reductase, along with inhibiting test aromatization should make for excellent natural test levels.[/quote]
HCG stimulates production of the testes…it does nothing for the stimulating LH/FSH via the hypothalamus and pituitary so saying that is stimulates the HTPA is incorrect…it only stimulates the T (the H and the P are still being depressed with use of HCG).
We are using a minimal dose of HCG to keep testicular function going so that they are not desensitized post cycle and will respond well to your natural LH/FSH signal returning (I think this is fairly commonly accepted now as being superior to using large doses of HCG at the end of the cycle). having the 2 week break at the end of the cycle when the test enth ester is tapering off/clearing gives them additional time “off” to upregtulate the effect that LH/FSH will have when your natty production returns.
The HCG is only meant to keep testicular function going during the cycle so that the lag between the end of the cycle and the time that you are back to full natural production is as short as possible. My thinking is that LH/FSH production will come back fairly quickly from an 8 week cycle (with the final two weeks being like a very short test taper) and since your testes are not shut down to begin with it will take a minimal amount of time for them to return to full natural function. With longer cycles where there is more suppression of the HTPA there may be a need for a serm but so far it hasn’t been needed with the 8 weeker. I am trying a longer cycle now and depending on how I feel I may throw in a serm but so far my experience with the 8-10 weekers has been that it hasn’t been needed.
Personally I find that keeping E low-normal does more for getting my natural test levels up than using a SERM…high E has a very negative effect on T so I think this is more important than serm use…I have never found serms to work all that well for me but perhaps it was becuase my E was high at the times I tried it…maybe they work well for you…if they do by all means add one (clomid or nolva…which ever one you like). If you are really worried then by all means buy the Nolva and have it ready but i think you will find (as I did) that it isn’t needed which means you have more money to spend on HGH which really will help you out.
The HGH is meant to enhance the process so that you retain more mass during the period when your body would normally be shrinking due to the drop in androgens…using even a small dose (4iu 3x/w) seems to be effective to retain the additional mass but like I said more testing is needed to see if this is the experience for most or just the select few who have used this protocol.
I think it is fair to say that no PCT will jump you right out of your cycle into full high-normal T production and this PCT is no different. There will be a small lag where you will be below normal which is why the HGH is used (because it won’t interfere with your HTPA recovery). I am confident that this is the best PCT I have experienced in terms of libido and strength/mass retention so I would urge people to give it a chance because it just might be the most successful PCT you have had as well.
FG, sorry if I’ve missed this elsewhere in this thread, but why not just add a SERM to this and make it “complete?” Is there a specific reason you are leaving a SERM out?
I’m kind of doing a very similar PCT independently, but using nolvadex as well, and having good results, myself. Unfortunately, I have other damning factors that came into play that I am not willing to discuss here which skew my results all over the place, so I cannot be a reliable guinea pig for you. Bit of a shame, too, seeing as I am coming off of a 6+ month cycle. Still, depite the interfering factors, I will say that I am fairly surprised at how easily recovery is occurring for me, when I was on for so long, as such a ridiculously high dose and using very suppressive drugs (over 2g/w AAS for pretty much the entire cycle, high dose tren for much of the cycle).
Personally, though, I would not be without a SERM.
did you run low dose HCG the whole way through? I am sold on using low dose HCG during the cycle after how easy my last PCT was and seeing the results of those who have done the same.
you could add the serm if you want, there is no reason not to besides the fact that I don’t think it is needed. like I said before, i think estrogen control is the key for increasing natty test, not serm application (for me anyways…might be diff for others). Maybe my issue was that I used Adex and nolva and there was an interaction that fucked things up and it would work better with aromasin and nolva. My last PCT I used just a’sin and was very happy.
I think the real key to the whole thing is the use of low dose GH post cycle to help maintain muscle mass when you are otherwise in a catabolic state. even 4iu 3x/w seems to be enough to keep strength high, stop muscle loss, and keep motivation in the gym high which all helps get you back to normal (if you feel like shit and don’t have the energy to work out it is gonna take a lot longer to bounce back).
6 months of 2g/w is pretty heavy…glad to hear that you are bouncing back fast.
Yes, I used HCG throughout, up until the last couple of weeks just before PCT. Interestingly, like I said before, it was like I was going with the PCT you have outlined here independently. However, I am running nolva at 60/40/40/30/20/20 (three weeks into this now) in addition to pretty much what you have outlined above (well, yeah, my GH dosages are higher and I’m still running them BBB’s HGH protocol style). But anyway yeah, I have to say two things:
One, I do, indeed feel that BBB’s HGH protocol has indeed induced certain permanent mesomorphic changes in my body. I will probably go into this more in detail after my PCT is finally complete on my HGH experiment thread, just to keep things “scientific.”
Two, as I said, I’m rather surprised at how easy this PCT is. Sure, I’ve lost some size, but I’ve not gained any bodyfat whatsoever, my strength is remaining high, I have absolutely zero emotional issues (indeed I now realize just how high strung and aggressive I actually was on cycle) and I am very motivated and my energy levels are very high. Higher than on cycle right now, as a matter of fact. Libido was low the first two weeks but picked up in the third and now seems to be revving up pretty good.
The only problem I am currently having is with prolactin. I’m having leaky nips and occasionally sensitive nipples that I am having to deal with using caber and some letrozole. I’m going with normal doses of the caber and keeping the letro as low as I can. I wonder if this is estrogen rebound (???) combined with prolactin increase caused by the IGF-1 (GH use?)? Anybody have any ideas on this they’d like to throw at me?
Anyway the caber and letro are working and I figure the gyno is just something I’ve got coming to me after putting my body through such an insane cycle for over 6+ months. I’m not too worried about it.
Glad to hear that things are going well. I am interested to see a detailed account of your experience on the HGH protocol. There is obviously a very big diff in your pics.
I had to drop the protocol because I was having sides from the GH but after a break of a couple of weeks and a slow ramping up I have been back on it for a while and I am up to 5iu 3x/w with zero problems. I am going to start ramping up a little higher soon and see how it goes.
Don’t really know enough about the gyno issues to comment…might be some estrogen rebound…I found that aromasin worked a lot better for me post cycle so maybe there is something to eliminating the aromatase enzyme completely rather than just binding it…my theory is that there is a build up during the cycle of arotmatase (your body trying to balance the high T to E ratio) which isn’t an issue until after the cycle when your T drops quickly.
That or the fact that you were on very high levels of anti-e and once you come off there is a rebound from that. Either way i think you are managing it as best you can with low dose anti-e and caber when needed.
I have been running low dose anti-e and caber with my current cycle (I am currently on 600mg/w primo and HGH…going to add in some test and mast this week and run that for about another month bfore coming off completely for a few months) and I have found with caber if i run 2mg in the first week that I am having prolactin issues (leaky nips or slow to bust nut), then drop it to 1mg in the second and third week, and then .5mg each week after it does the trick…
i started dropping it when I found I was too quick to bust nut…maybe more is needed with a cycle of deca or tren but for use with HGH i think .5mg a week is enough for me.
