How long should I be shooting both of these? I would assume 2-3 weeks would be where the Test Enth would be high enough to stop the prop. I did 2 weeks off the enth before I started the prop and it felt good.
Has anyone changed these esters in this direction??
Thanks
B0nzz
Thats one way to do it. Another way is to front load the Enanthate. A third is a hybrid method where you front load the enanthate but still use a bit of prop initially.
It sounds like you’re planning to use your enanthate at consistent doses. Though I recommend the FL method you can still pull this off it just takes longer hence the need for the prop. However, it is adviseable to taper off your prop as well.
I was planing on going off for a few months for a couple of reasons, 1 was to knock up the wife, well, three days after HCG the stork came so that’s done CHECK. Then I tore some muscles and figured they will heal quicker on, so I am still on. I was going from the enth to prop so I can do PCT 1 week after I stopped and get on with it. The waiting period between enth and PCT I figured would piss me off so I tried this route plus I was also doing EQ and Dec so i was going to be looking at like a month of no shots. Mentally I thought that would fuck with me. I will try that again, I am just going to blast ent for 4 weeks at like 700 with dec and then lay off for 2 weeks then go on prop for 5 weeks and then lay off 2 weeks then pct. I think it sounds like a good theory for my mental state and to keep as much as I can. I thought i found the magic PCT called HGH but its bloating the shit out of my gut so I am BBB guinea pig so that’s out for now.
I planned on using the prop and enth until the enth takes over and Ill taper off the prop then.
Alright so I know a lot of people swear by front loading but i never made sense to me.
If drug x takes y amount to get into your system no matter how much you take, it will still take z amount to get in there unless you are suggesting that if i take 100mg of x in three weeks 25 of that will be in my system. But why would it taper in?? I can see a day or two for my body to utilize it but not week(s)
Thoughts??
B0nzz
Your last post was rather confusing regarding your future plans.
But, with frontloading, it’s designed to get more into you, more quickly. The enanthate ester halflife is about 10 days. The logic is a large frontload, something like 1000mg, so you get more test into you initially. At day ten you have 500mg in you still, from that first injection alone. Considering most inject every third day or twice a week, you are continuing inject androgens into you, and thereby increase greatly the initial amount in your system.
So, day 1 is 1000mg.
Day 3 250mg (plus the 850 left from the first inject)
Day 6 250mg (plus the 700 left from the first inject, and 212.5 from day 3 inject)
And so on.
I understand what you are saying about the ester, but if you fronloaded 600mg, then day ten has you at 300 (plus whatever additional injections you made). It doesn’t increase the absorption rate; you’ll just be absorbing more. Does that make sense?
See I don’t buy that… If I shoot 200mg of test enth IM, by day 10 shouldn’t I see 200mg. Why would I want to Rev a cold engine so to say. Are you suggesting that by day 5 my body would see 100? I see where off the back end you would taper your numbers as it is untilized but not going in.
I could see this being true with say HCG, signaling my boys to produce the test but if I am “bypassing” that step with external test why would my body recognize it in stages and taper up.
I hope Im being clear.
Maybe I didn’t explain that right, then. Given your example, if you shoot 200mg test-e, by day 10 there’s only 100mg left in your body. By day 20, halve it again and you have 50mg left. But, at day 20, you don’t have just 50mg test in your system, because you’ve been injecting 200mg every three days or twice a week. You’d have to calculate each individual injections half lives to get an accurate mg/week.
I wasn’t tapering the mg, I was giving examples of what would be left in your body from that particular injection. In any event, the frontload is designed to introduce a large amount of test early on in the cycle, particularly when using longer esters.
I get it, that total makes sense.
Althogh, I would rather have my test slowly taper up then wack three times the amount in the begining.
This go around is for muscle healing more then a normal gain cycle so I am going to stick with what I know this time but will try it next time where I can actually track my progress un injured.
Have you personally tried this?
What was the most noticeable improvements over the normal proto?
Thanks for (short of drawing a picture) explaining it…
B0nzz
Haha, no worries. I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve been on for a while.
The difference between “successful” frontloading and not seems to be dose dependent. There have been many that say there was no difference in feeling the test; the successful ones say they’ve have felt the test earlier in the cycle. That’s the obvious benefit to using test-prop - the rapid release because of the short ester. Frontloading the longer esters is an attempt to do the same thing.
Saps recently tried this, and I think he went for an 800mg frontload and by the end of week one he felt differences. I think that was with a cypionate estered test, so that’s pretty quick considering cyp’s half life. Saps, correct me if I’m wrong please.
Holy fuck batman…800… see I think that’s got to be a shock to the system as well. Going form say a normal male 30-40 maintaining what say 200mg of test to 800 has to wreak havoc on e and other bodily systems.
You would think its like revving a cold engine, just not a good idea.
I’m young enough to try it once what the hell…
B0nzz
[quote]5.0 wrote:
Saps, correct me if I’m wrong please. [/quote]
As usual you are 
Im running 750mg a week of TE and 400mg a week of ND [along with dbol 40mg on training days and GHRP6 PWO 300mcg] Kind of a mild cycle for me.
Anyway, with the understanding of what my weekly doses would be on Day 1 I put 1000mg of TE in and 400mg of ND. On Day 4 I put 500mg of TE in and 300 of ND. On day 7 it was 375mg TE and 200mg ND. Since then Im doing 250mg of TE on MWF and 200mg ND on MF.
This is slightly off topic but for information sakes let me add Im doing all shots via slin pins exclusively in the bis and tris [testing morepain’s fascia stretching theory]. It seems to be working. Specifically Im putting the ND in my biceps on Mondays and Fridays and the TE in the triceps on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays. Further, Mondays are out heads bis and Fridays are inner head bis. Mon for tris is lateral head, Wed is long head and Fri is medial head. So each head of the respective muscle is on a one week rotation. Also for those who have not used slin pins for the arms its so simple and painless. I’ll admit a 23G 1.5" in the VG is also painless but I wanted to try this internal fascia stretching stuff. I think its working. I have never ever measured my arms over 18 1/4" before even at a weight of 245lbs. Now they are around 18 3/4" and my weight is closer to 230-235lbs. Now the asterisk there is when I was PL arms were not important to me. Since I’ve backed away from that and am actually doing arm work for the first time in years they were bound to grow a bit. No doubt in my mind its only a matter of time before I crest over 19".
Sorry if that was a bit of a hijack.
Bonzz check out Bill Roberts explanation of frontloading about half way down this page:
I was wrong, but we’re still talking a large dose. 1000mg was more than I remembered. It did the trick, though, didn’t it.
I am still on the fence with this. I would have no way to judge if it worked or not so I am going to stay on prop and enth for 3 weeks then drop the prop and just stay on the enth for a while. I tore some muslces so I am using this (the beginning of anyway) to repair the muscle.
I will try the front load in July when I go back on.
B0nzz
PS, is it weird to be looking forward to my next cycle when I didn’t finish this one… weird
[quote]5.0 wrote:
I was wrong, but we’re still talking a large dose. 1000mg was more than I remembered. It did the trick, though, didn’t it.[/quote]
Oh hell yeah. IMO I was after one week where I’d normally be after 3 weeks.
[quote]B0nzz wrote:
I am still on the fence with this. I would have no way to judge if it worked or not so I am going to stay on prop and enth for 3 weeks then drop the prop and just stay on the enth for a while. I tore some muslces so I am using this (the beginning of anyway) to repair the muscle.
I will try the front load in July when I go back on.
B0nzz
PS, is it weird to be looking forward to my next cycle when I didn’t finish this one… weird[/quote]
Well BOnzz the way to tell if it works is you literally have to experiment and try it. Im not kidding when I say using a proper frontload even with long esters like Enanthate and especially Decanoate you will see and feel the difference in a week or you wont and then you’ll know it either worked for you or it didnt. Most guys use too little proportionately speaking. Again my protocol calls for weekly doses of 750mg of TE. On day 1 I used a full gram and followed that up 3 days later with 500mg and 375 on day 7 so after 1 weeks I had pumped 1875 into me instead of 750.
Also Im very particle to a certain method I learned years ago to calculate the half life of various esters. Its the carbon atoms x .7 method. So for instance Enanthate has 7 carbons x.7 for a half life of 4.9 days lets call it 5. What this means is of the 1000mg I put in day 1 by day 5 only 500 was left. [Lets also not forget to include ester weight. Enanthate leaves you with approximately 72% true product so 1000mg of TE is really 720mg or 360mg after just 5 days.]
The method does work when you do it right.
Ok so I dropped a gram of test in my ass today.
How long before I stop taking the prop?
For what its worth I also front loaded 800 N Dec too.
I swear it pumped up my blood pressure a little, kind of had a headache since about 3 hrs after I took it. Could be in my head though…
bonzz, you might find this thread interesting
[quote]B0nzz wrote:
Ok so I dropped a gram of test in my ass today.
How long before I stop taking the prop?
For what its worth I also front loaded 800 N Dec too.
I swear it pumped up my blood pressure a little, kind of had a headache since about 3 hrs after I took it. Could be in my head though…[/quote]
Are you looking at shooting the enanthate twice a week? I missed what your weekly dose is going to be. Since you’ve frontloaded an amount close to running 750 a week (I think) you could very well drop the prop now.
SAPS and 5.0 I want to thank you for taking the time to explain this. I am now on board with the front load with the post review from rrjc. I was doing a front load with out knowing what I was doing to an extent. I also see how Brook was nice in the beginning ( I always heard he changed and now see it… weird)
5.0, I was planning e3d 250 of Test Ent and Deca Dur Tuesday and Sat again at 250. I did front load Deca (aginst Bills rec) at 750 the other day.
Soooo. Tuesday I was going to pin Test at 500 and Dec at 300. Then go to my normal 250 e3d for test and 250 Tues and Sat for Deca Dur
I figured I wouldn’t need that last 3/4 cut (375 for third shot of test to taper down) because I have been on Test/prop mix since the 4th. I did 100mg per day for the first 4days and 1cc for the last 3. Funny how I was doing a half assed front load with out knowing it and kind of fighting the theory at the same time… I am glad I opened my head to this…
I still have that damn headache, kind of a mild one but has been since I dumped a gram in my ass…Almost feels like a High Blood pressure one… I think Im going to give blood as BBB suggested a while ago, my last appointment got bumped…
My E must be high too. My knees hurt ( But i blame the drying properties of Prop) and I get teared up easy. I also have 1 shot of 250 HCG due Tuesday and that’s the last of my 5,000iu bottle doen with EOD shoots. I am doing liquid letro. I am doing .5 oz per day, think Im going to up it to 1.5. I also have Nol and Clomid but if letro doesnt kill my e, ive got other probs…
B0nzz
BOnzz-
A typical frontload would include your one large dose, then simply continue with your E3D injections of whatever mg, in your case 250mg of test. I think Saps ran his just a little differently, and tapered down on some doses to get the full effect. But, normally a frontload won’t taper at all. It will begin with your large dose, then three days later (depending on your dosing regimen) you would pin your normal dose. So you did it right, I think.
It does sound sound like your estrogen is high. Be very careful with the Letro…if you overdose it, it is very unforgiving on your libido. Any chances on getting your hands on some a’dex?