Global Warming Lies

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
snipeout wrote:

Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?

Sooo…you also believe in magic?
Since scientists(experts) weren’t quacking in scientific journals about global cooling in the 70’s, one would assume you must believe in magic/and or anything wingnuts tell you.

(In otherwords a newsweek article in the seventies doesn’t equal science.)

Nice try…hilarioulsy this yarn is quite popular amongst wingnuts…they just get dumber and dumber.

They certainly were warning of global cooling in scientific journals in the 1970’s.

I don’t follow your lack of logic here.

Err…uh
Newsweek, Natl. Geographic, and Science News aren’t peer reviewed science journals are they…? (apply logic now!)

Also George Will and Micheal Crichton aren’t scientists. (logic again). Just because they say something happened in the seventies doesn’t make it so.

For the record there was no imminent ice age predicted by scientists in scientific journals in the seventies. (Or more accurate–this isn’t what the vast,vast,vast majority of scientists were saying 30 years ago.)

But doesn’t it make you mad to have been duped into believing it by your fellow wingnuts?

What the fuck are you rambling on about? In the 1970’s many scientists though we were going into a period of global cooling and it was due to mankind.

Now many scientists are saying the opposite. I do not understand what Newsweek has to do with it.

Please explain in English. I do not read all the leftists bloggers so you are going to have to explain in detail and make sense. I cannot follow your train of thought when you skip around like this.

Wingnuts (george will, crichton, instapundit idiots, etc.)base the “global cooling in the seventies myth” on a couple of unfortunate articles in newsweek and national geographic (i.e. the media)

For the third time the scientific consensus (scientists printed in peer reviewed science journals) didn’t say there was imminent global cooling. (10,000-50,000 years is not soon).

Example (commonly abused):

Future climate. Having presented evidence that major changes in past climate were associated with variations in the geometry of the earth’s orbit, we should be able to predict the trend of future climate. Such forecasts must be qualified in two ways.

First, they apply only to the natural component of future climatic trends - and not to anthropogenic effects such as those due to the burning of fossil fuels.

Second, they describe only the long-term trends, because they are linked to orbital variations with periods of 20,000 years and longer. Climatic oscillations at higher frequencies are not predicted.

One approach to forecasting the natural long-term climate trend is to estimate the time constants of response necessary to explain the observed phase relationships between orbital variation and climatic change, and then to use those time constants in the exponential-response model.

When such a model is applied to Vernekar’s (39) astronomical projections, the results indicate that the long-term trend over the next 20,000 years is towards extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation and cooler climate (80).

from: JD Hays, J Imbrie and NJ Shackleton, Science, v194, #4270, p1121, 1976/12/10

note these predictions exclude human actions, and that 20,000 years is not something that raises alarms.

Now you can see how stupid this comment was:
“Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?”

just spinning yarn with that line of crap.[/quote]

It was more than one scientist making the claim. Do you ever get tired if spreading deception?

Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.

I forgot how you spun that one and I could use a good laugh.

[quote]100meters wrote:

Sooo…you also believe in magic?
Since scientists(experts) weren’t quacking in scientific journals about global cooling in the 70’s, one would assume you must believe in magic/and or anything wingnuts tell you.

(In otherwords a newsweek article in the seventies doesn’t equal science.)

Nice try…hilarioulsy this yarn is quite popular amongst wingnuts…they just get dumber and dumber.
[/quote]

If there is one thing I find disgusting it is glibness and the air of superiority of people who do not know what the hell they are taking about.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
snipeout wrote:

Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?

Sooo…you also believe in magic?
Since scientists(experts) weren’t quacking in scientific journals about global cooling in the 70’s, one would assume you must believe in magic/and or anything wingnuts tell you.

(In otherwords a newsweek article in the seventies doesn’t equal science.)

Nice try…hilarioulsy this yarn is quite popular amongst wingnuts…they just get dumber and dumber.

They certainly were warning of global cooling in scientific journals in the 1970’s.

I don’t follow your lack of logic here.

Err…uh
Newsweek, Natl. Geographic, and Science News aren’t peer reviewed science journals are they…? (apply logic now!)

Also George Will and Micheal Crichton aren’t scientists. (logic again). Just because they say something happened in the seventies doesn’t make it so.

For the record there was no imminent ice age predicted by scientists in scientific journals in the seventies. (Or more accurate–this isn’t what the vast,vast,vast majority of scientists were saying 30 years ago.)

But doesn’t it make you mad to have been duped into believing it by your fellow wingnuts?

What the fuck are you rambling on about? In the 1970’s many scientists though we were going into a period of global cooling and it was due to mankind.

Now many scientists are saying the opposite. I do not understand what Newsweek has to do with it.

Please explain in English. I do not read all the leftists bloggers so you are going to have to explain in detail and make sense. I cannot follow your train of thought when you skip around like this.

Wingnuts (george will, crichton, instapundit idiots, etc.)base the “global cooling in the seventies myth” on a couple of unfortunate articles in newsweek and national geographic (i.e. the media)

For the third time the scientific consensus (scientists printed in peer reviewed science journals) didn’t say there was imminent global cooling. (10,000-50,000 years is not soon).

Example (commonly abused):

Future climate. Having presented evidence that major changes in past climate were associated with variations in the geometry of the earth’s orbit, we should be able to predict the trend of future climate. Such forecasts must be qualified in two ways.

First, they apply only to the natural component of future climatic trends - and not to anthropogenic effects such as those due to the burning of fossil fuels.

Second, they describe only the long-term trends, because they are linked to orbital variations with periods of 20,000 years and longer. Climatic oscillations at higher frequencies are not predicted.

One approach to forecasting the natural long-term climate trend is to estimate the time constants of response necessary to explain the observed phase relationships between orbital variation and climatic change, and then to use those time constants in the exponential-response model.

When such a model is applied to Vernekar’s (39) astronomical projections, the results indicate that the long-term trend over the next 20,000 years is towards extensive Northern Hemisphere glaciation and cooler climate (80).

from: JD Hays, J Imbrie and NJ Shackleton, Science, v194, #4270, p1121, 1976/12/10

note these predictions exclude human actions, and that 20,000 years is not something that raises alarms.

Now you can see how stupid this comment was:
“Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?”

just spinning yarn with that line of crap.

It was more than one scientist making the claim. Do you ever get tired if spreading deception?[/quote]

More than one. Hilarious. I said the consensus never said impending global cooling. But yes there was more than one. Thanks for making my point.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.

I forgot how you spun that one and I could use a good laugh.[/quote]

Please post link to “guilty of perjury”.

waiting…
waiting…
waiting…

(readers note that Zap has already forgotten that he couldn’t do this 6 months ago- yet ironically has thoroughly read and understood the mindset of the vast majority of scientists in the seventies, the amazing Zap Branigan everyone.)

[quote]orion wrote:
100meters wrote:

Sooo…you also believe in magic?
Since scientists(experts) weren’t quacking in scientific journals about global cooling in the 70’s, one would assume you must believe in magic/and or anything wingnuts tell you.

(In otherwords a newsweek article in the seventies doesn’t equal science.)

Nice try…hilarioulsy this yarn is quite popular amongst wingnuts…they just get dumber and dumber.

If there is one thing I find disgusting it is glibness and the air of superiority of people who do not know what the hell they are taking about. [/quote]

Like this right:
Zap:“Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.”

or this:

“Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?”

Yes it’s pretty annoying, but I find it’s pointless to patronize this kind of stupidity, better to just try to say your wrong and here’s why, all in the frankest terms possible.

So, the editor of uber-left-wing magazine Counterpunch says there is zero evidence that human activity is affecting global warming (link in other thread).

How much is ExxonMobil paying him?

I’ll repost for those that didn’t see the other thread:

[i]Is Global Warming a Sin?
By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

In a couple of hundred years, historians will be comparing the frenzies over our supposed human contribution to global warming to the tumults at the latter end of the tenth century as the Christian millennium approached. Then, as now, the doomsters identified human sinfulness as the propulsive factor in the planet’s rapid downward slide.

Then as now, a buoyant market throve on fear. The Roman Catholic Church was a bank whose capital was secured by the infinite mercy of Christ, Mary and the Saints, and so the Pope could sell indulgences, like checks. The sinners established a line of credit against bad behavior and could go on sinning. Today a world market in “carbon credits” is in formation. Those whose “carbon footprint” is small can sell their surplus carbon credits to others, less virtuous than themselves.

The modern trade is as fantastical as the medieval one. There is still zero empirical evidence that anthropogenic production of CO2 is making any measurable contribution to the world’s present warming trend. The greenhouse fearmongers rely entirely on unverified, crudely oversimplified computer models to finger mankind’s sinful contribution. Devoid of any sustaining scientific basis, carbon trafficking is powered by guilt, credulity, cynicism and greed, just like the old indulgences, though at least the latter produced beautiful monuments.

By the sixteenth century, long after the world had sailed safely through the end of the first millennium, Pope Leo X financed the reconstruction of St. Peter’s Basilica by offering a “plenary” indulgence, guaranteed to release a soul from purgatory.

Now imagine two lines on a piece of graph paper. The first rises to a crest, then slopes sharply down, then levels off and rises slowly once more. The other has no undulations. It rises in a smooth, slowly increasing arc. The first, wavy line is the worldwide CO2 tonnage produced by humans burning coal, oil and natural gas.

On this graph it starts in 1928, at 1.1 gigatons (i.e. 1.1 billion metric tons). It peaks in 1929 at 1.17 gigatons. The world, led by its mightiest power, the USA, plummets into the Great Depression, and by 1932 human CO2 production has fallen to 0.88 gigatons a year, a 30 per cent drop. Hard times drove a tougher bargain than all the counsels of Al Gore or the jeremiads of the IPCC (Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change). Then, in 1933 it began to climb slowly again, up to 0.9 gigatons.

And the other line, the one ascending so evenly? That’s the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, parts per million (ppm) by volume, moving in 1928 from just under 306, hitting 306 in 1929, to 307 in 1932 and on up. Boom and bust, the line heads up steadily. These days it’s at 380.There are, to be sure, seasonal variations in CO2, as measured since 1958 by the instruments on Mauna Loa, Hawai’i. (Pre-1958 measurements are of air bubbles trapped in glacial ice.)

Summer and winter vary steadily by about 5 ppm, reflecting photosynthesis cycles. The two lines on that graph proclaim that a whopping 30 per cent cut in man-made CO2 emissions didn’t even cause a 1 ppm drop in the atmosphere’s CO2. Thus it is impossible to assert that the increase in atmospheric CO2 stems from human burning of fossil fuels.

I met Dr. Martin Hertzberg, the man who drew that graph and those conclusions, on a Nation cruise back in 2001. He remarked that while he shared many of the Nation’s editorial positions, he approved of my reservations on the issue of supposed human contributions to global warming, as outlined in columns I wrote at that time.

Hertzberg was a meteorologist for three years in the U.S. Navy, an occupation which gave him a lifelong mistrust of climate modeling. Trained in chemistry and physics, a combustion research scientist for most of his career, he’s retired now in Copper Mountain, Colorado, still consulting from time to time.

Not so long ago, Hertzberg sent me some of his recent papers on the global warming hypothesis, a construct now accepted by many progressives as infallible as Papal dogma on matters of faith or doctrine. Among them was the graph described above so devastating to the hypothesis.

As Hertzberg readily acknowledges, the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere has increased about 21 per cent in the past century. The world has also been getting just a little bit warmer. The not very reliable data on the world’s average temperature (which omit most of the world’s oceans and remote regions, while over-representing urban areas) show about a 0.5Co increase in average temperature between 1880 and 1980, and it’s still rising, more sharply in the polar regions than elsewhere.

But is CO2, at 380 parts per million in the atmosphere, playing a significant role in retaining the 94 per cent of solar radiation that’s absorbed in the atmosphere, as against water vapor, also a powerful heat absorber, whose content in humid tropical atmosphere, can be as high as 2 per cent, the equivalent of 20,000 ppm.

As Hertzberg says, water in the form of oceans, clouds, snow, ice cover and vapor “is overwhelming in the radiative and energy balance between the earth and the sun Carbon dioxide and the greenhouse gases are, by comparison, the equivalent of a few farts in a hurricane.”

And water is exactly that component of the earth’s heat balance that the global warming computer models fail to account for.

It’s a notorious inconvenience for the Greenhousers that data also show carbon dioxide concentrations from the Eocene period, 20 million years before Henry Ford trundled his first model T out of the shop, 300-400 per cent higher than current concentrations. The Greenhousers deal with other difficulties like the medieval warming period’s higher-than-today’s temperatures by straightforward chicanery, misrepresenting tree-ring data (themselves an unreliable guide) and claiming the warming was a local, insignificant European affair.

We’re warmer now, because today’s world is in the thaw following the last Ice Age. Ice ages correlate with changes in the solar heat we receive, all due to predictable changes in the earth’s elliptic orbit round the sun, and in the earth’s tilt.

As Hertzberg explains, the cyclical heat effect of all of these variables was worked out in great detail between 1915 and 1940 by the Serbian physicist, Milutin Milankovitch, one of the giants of 20th-century astrophysics. In past postglacial cycles, as now, the earth’s orbit and tilt gives us more and longer summer days between the equinoxes.

Water covers 71 per cent of the surface of the planet. As compared to the atmosphere, there’s at least a hundred times more CO2 in the oceans, dissolved as carbonate. As the postglacial thaw progresses the oceans warm up, and some of the dissolved carbon emits into the atmosphere, just like fizz in soda water taken out of the fridge. “So the greenhouse global warming theory has it ass backwards,” Hertzberg concludes.

“It is the warming of the earth that is causing the increase of carbon dioxide and not the reverse.” He has recently had vivid confirmation of that conclusion. Several new papers show that for the last three quarter million years CO2 changes always lag global temperatures by 800 to 2,600 years.

It looks like Poseidon should go hunting for carbon credits. Trouble is, the human carbon footprint is of zero consequence amid these huge forces and volumes, and that’s not even to mention the role of the giant reactor beneath our feet: the earth’s increasingly hot molten core.[/i]

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04282007.html

Cockburn is one of the editors of Counterpunch.

EDIT: fixed link

interesting how anyone who strays from the talking points becomes a “wingnut”.

[quote]100meters wrote:
orion wrote:
100meters wrote:

Sooo…you also believe in magic?
Since scientists(experts) weren’t quacking in scientific journals about global cooling in the 70’s, one would assume you must believe in magic/and or anything wingnuts tell you.

(In otherwords a newsweek article in the seventies doesn’t equal science.)

Nice try…hilarioulsy this yarn is quite popular amongst wingnuts…they just get dumber and dumber.

If there is one thing I find disgusting it is glibness and the air of superiority of people who do not know what the hell they are taking about.

Like this right:
Zap:“Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.”

or this:

“Are these the same experts that were quacking about “global cooling” in the 70’s or is this a whole new group of experts?”

Yes it’s pretty annoying, but I find it’s pointless to patronize this kind of stupidity, better to just try to say your wrong and here’s why, all in the frankest terms possible.[/quote]

No, things like that climatologists werent predicting a new Ice Age, though they were, insinuating that all scientists agree on man-made global warming, cause they dont and the assumption that everyone believing otherwise is either paid for by the oil industry or an idiot.

What about the billions made by the global warming industry. Do they not have an agenda?

What about this documentary maing an argumen that is hard to deny; that we as a species are nothing compared to the sun when it comes to affecting the climate.

But no, brainless Republicans, all of them, because Republicans want us to go extinct to please their reptilian overlords.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.

I forgot how you spun that one and I could use a good laugh.

Please post link to “guilty of perjury”.

waiting…
waiting…
waiting…

(readers note that Zap has already forgotten that he couldn’t do this 6 months ago- yet ironically has thoroughly read and understood the mindset of the vast majority of scientists in the seventies, the amazing Zap Branigan everyone.)[/quote]

He was impeached and disbarred for perjury. Just because he never sat through a court room trial does not mean he did not perjure himself.

You embarrass yourself with every post.

Very interesting article Thunder.

It does seem that many, perhaps even most, of the scientist that publish studies on global warming seem to believe in human activity being a large factor in global warming.It could turn out to be either bad science or disgraceful reporting and editing of the issue. They may also be correct.

Either way I see little we could do to avert it. The idea that humans currently have the political, economic, and technical ability to significantly reduce the growth of human co2 release much less actually reverse the trend any time soon is just not based in reality.

[quote]Heliotrope wrote:

Either way I see little we could do to avert it. The idea that humans currently have the political, economic, and technical ability to significantly reduce the growth of human co2 release much less actually reverse the trend any time soon is just not based in reality. [/quote]

Exactly correct. That does not stop people from trying to make money or gain power by pretending we can reduce CO2.

[quote]orion wrote:
No, things like that climatologists werent predicting a new Ice Age, though they were, insinuating that all scientists agree on man-made global warming, cause they dont and the assumption that everyone believing otherwise is either paid for by the oil industry or an idiot.
[/quote]

1.Yes the “imminent” ice age occuring 20,000 years from now.
2.True. 61 “scientists” don’t agree.
3. True. Michael Crichton isn’t paid by Exxon. The rest are paid/and or work for organizations that are paid.

All fascinating points, really.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Hey 100meters, since you are back why don’t you remind me again how Bill Clinton did not perjure himself.

I forgot how you spun that one and I could use a good laugh.

Please post link to “guilty of perjury”.

waiting…
waiting…
waiting…

(readers note that Zap has already forgotten that he couldn’t do this 6 months ago- yet ironically has thoroughly read and understood the mindset of the vast majority of scientists in the seventies, the amazing Zap Branigan everyone.)

He was impeached and disbarred for perjury. Just because he never sat through a court room trial does not mean he did not perjure himself.

You embarrass yourself with every post.[/quote]

Sooooo…no link? (You tried right?)
So we’re clear:

  1. not indicted on perjury
  2. found not guilty of perjury by U.S. Senate.
  3. did not perjure himself.

why:“when the person [Clinton] knowingly engages in or causes contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person [Lewinsky] with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person [Lewinsky].”

Had starr’s team been less cute, you’d have something…
Unfortunately (for you) distorting, dodging, twisting, evading, and other varieties of defense are NOT perjury. You do understand that right? I guess I’m realizing now that it’s entirely possible you have no idea what perjury is, I forget what you sheep are like.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Heliotrope wrote:

Either way I see little we could do to avert it. The idea that humans currently have the political, economic, and technical ability to significantly reduce the growth of human co2 release much less actually reverse the trend any time soon is just not based in reality.

Exactly correct. That does not stop people from trying to make money or gain power by pretending we can reduce CO2.[/quote]

It’s really like pounding sand in here.

[quote]100meters wrote:
orion wrote:
No, things like that climatologists werent predicting a new Ice Age, though they were, insinuating that all scientists agree on man-made global warming, cause they dont and the assumption that everyone believing otherwise is either paid for by the oil industry or an idiot.

1.Yes the “imminent” ice age occuring 20,000 years from now.
2.True. 61 “scientists” don’t agree.
3. True. Michael Crichton isn’t paid by Exxon. The rest are paid/and or work for organizations that are paid.

All fascinating points, really.[/quote]

Um, and so is everyone making a buck from the global warming business.

Does only oil money corrupt?

Since the sea is the largest C02 emitter by far and water holds less co2 when it gets warmer would it not follow that the Co2 content ofthe athmosphere follows a global warming.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Heliotrope wrote:

Either way I see little we could do to avert it. The idea that humans currently have the political, economic, and technical ability to significantly reduce the growth of human co2 release much less actually reverse the trend any time soon is just not based in reality.

Exactly correct. That does not stop people from trying to make money or gain power by pretending we can reduce CO2.

It’s really like pounding sand in here.[/quote]

Piss off troll.

Where is the torrent of ad hominem attacks against the left-wing radical editor of Counterpunch who says human-caused global warming is a myth?

Which corporation has paid him off?

[quote]orion wrote:
100meters wrote:
orion wrote:
No, things like that climatologists werent predicting a new Ice Age, though they were, insinuating that all scientists agree on man-made global warming, cause they dont and the assumption that everyone believing otherwise is either paid for by the oil industry or an idiot.

1.Yes the “imminent” ice age occuring 20,000 years from now.
2.True. 61 “scientists” don’t agree.
3. True. Michael Crichton isn’t paid by Exxon. The rest are paid/and or work for organizations that are paid.

All fascinating points, really.

Um, and so is everyone making a buck from the global warming business.

Does only oil money corrupt?

Since the sea is the largest C02 emitter by far and water holds less co2 when it gets warmer would it not follow that the Co2 content ofthe athmosphere follows a global warming.[/quote]

Hmm…I wonder if scientists are able to account for a variety of variables, like the ocean being the largest resovoir? Oh, they can? Right, I thought so. Oh, and the oceans are holding more C02, and there’s more in the biosphere? Oh, dear—it doesn’t take a scientist to figure that seas aren’t the source.

This was covered in the the Swindle film, no?