Veerabhadran Ramanathan the preeminent authority on global dimming, discovers that dark aerosols (which have been grossly underestimated by climatologists and modelers thus far) melt glaciers with effects on par with “greenhouse gases” while lighter aerosols decrease insolation and result in cooling.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/08/070801-brown-clouds.html
Further compounding the CO2=Bad debate.
It’d be nice if NASA got funding to get DSCOVR out of it’s crate and send it up:
http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/09/free_dscovr.php
It would give us what a lot of people on both sides of the debates have been asking for: More scientific data.
Instead of assuming, for example, that the Earth has been receiving more sunlight in the past years, we could actually measure the Earth’s albedo and have more than “best guesses” as to what’s happening.
Pookie, they already know the answers, so they don’t want to fund it and get that proof.
Lucasa, I’d say it adds more confusion to the global warming debate (potentially anyway) but it doesn’t do much specifically with the CO2 debate.
Man, I hate this global warming conjecture. It’s like a bunch of sailors on the deck of a sinking ship arguing over what caused the crack.
Ahhh, science…poses more questions than it answers.
You realize nobody really knows anything, right?
It just shows we don’t know what the hell is happening.
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?
[quote]kroby wrote:
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?[/quote]
Because global cooling is cooler.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?[/quote]
In a nutshell: Desertification of large areas; flooding of coastal cities as sea levels rise; warmer weather = more hurricanes and tornadoes.
There is also the (low?) possibility of the nightmare “feedback loop” scenario where passed a certain point, the creation of greenhouse gasses increases with the temperatures, leading to an Earth rather similar to our neighbor planet, Venus.
Our kids and grandkids can tell us all about it. If history is any guide, it’s a lot of hoopla for nothing. Anyway, humans suck at prevention, so we’re going to test GW in a manly way: we’re going wait and see who was right.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?
[/quote]
Well there are tons of speculation about why it could be bad but really no one knows for sure.
Ideally, temperatures should remain stable around seasonable variations–you can imagine why drastic differences would be bad but these small differences can only have speculative implications, at best.
[quote]pookie wrote:
kroby wrote:
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?
In a nutshell: Desertification of large areas; flooding of coastal cities as sea levels rise; warmer weather = more hurricanes and tornadoes.[/quote]
This may result in lots of death. Is that not a check and balance by Mother Nature? Strictly speaking at a population density point of view, this would be beneficial to humanity.
Wouldn’t the creation of greenhouse gases effect a global screen of clouds? That would then lead to global cooling, due to decreased radiation by the sun. Venus is the way it is because of it’s proximity to the sun, not because of it’s cloud cover.
[quote]Our kids and grandkids can tell us all about it. If history is any guide, it’s a lot of hoopla for nothing. Anyway, humans suck at prevention, so we’re going to test GW in a manly way: we’re going wait and see who was right.
[/quote]
Why is no one talking about pollution?
[quote]kroby wrote:
This may result in lots of death. Is that not a check and balance by Mother Nature? Strictly speaking at a population density point of view, this would be beneficial to humanity.[/quote]
Depends on what you consider a healthy population density. Personally, I’d prefer not having to die and I’ll extend the curtesy of feeling the same to all my fellow men.
If that were true, Mercury would be the hottest planet in the solar system. Venus is about twice as hot, yet a lot further from the sun. The greenhouse effect refers to the atmosphere preventing heat from escaping back into space.
What do you mean? We have tons of laws and regulations to control pollution. Vehicles are equipped with catalytic converters, companies install expensive systems to remove mercury and sulfur from their output; many cities, counties, etc. have recently passed laws to make chemical herbicides and insecticides illegal, etc. China or India might have large pollution problems, but ours are not out of control.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Lucasa, I’d say it adds more confusion to the global warming debate (potentially anyway) but it doesn’t do much specifically with the CO2 debate.[/quote]
Good to see that the three are clearly separated in your mind vroom, maybe you could enlighten the entire world as to how this distinct lack of interaction results in such a fantastically complex and unpredictable system. Oh wait, I forgot, CO2=Bad, no further explanation needed. Must be nice to have a dogma to rigidly adhere to.
[quote]pookie wrote:
It’d be nice if NASA got funding to get DSCOVR out of it’s crate and send it up:
http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/09/free_dscovr.php
It would give us what a lot of people on both sides of the debates have been asking for: More scientific data.
Instead of assuming, for example, that the Earth has been receiving more sunlight in the past years, we could actually measure the Earth’s albedo and have more than “best guesses” as to what’s happening.[/quote]
That said, there could be equal potential in NASA’s current program;
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/environment/f2105a914b6b3110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
Even if we manage to “thwart global warming” we still suck at preventing an asteroid strike or a major geological event don’t we?
[quote]kroby wrote:
Why is no one talking about pollution?[/quote]
Pollution is probably the easiest thing to curb because we understand that mere living causes it…simply exhaling causes a certain amount of CO2 to be released. The root cause of destructive pollution is “waste and overconsumption.”–think about those implications.
[quote]kroby wrote
Why is no one talking about pollution?[/quote]
Good question.
What concerns me are more immediate concerns like: Polluted waterways and beaches, toxic fish, smog, deforestation, acid rain.
Most of all, the fact that my kid will not be able to play outside w/o a full body suite or 5 gallons of UV blocker.
[quote]kroby wrote:
Just for my information, why is global warming bad?[/quote]
Global Warming is a bit of a misnomer. Terrible name if you ask me.
Catastrophic Climate Change would be a much better term given what many experts believe could happen in the decades and centuries to come.
Yeeeahhh, Catastrophic Climate Change. That has a nice ring to it. A little pizzazz if you will.
Plus it make a nice Acronym. CCC. WE love good acronyms.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
kroby wrote:
Why is no one talking about pollution?
Pollution is probably the easiest thing to curb because we understand that mere living causes it…simply exhaling causes a certain amount of CO2 to be released. The root cause of destructive pollution is “waste and overconsumption.”–think about those implications.
[/quote]
We have all been shatting in our own sinks for too long.
Now we and our children are reaping the consequences.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Even if we manage to “thwart global warming” we still suck at preventing an asteroid strike or a major geological event don’t we?[/quote]
Let’s deal with the problems we can handle and leave some for later generations.
Isn’t the Yellowstone Caldera much overdue for a super-volcanic eruption?
Maybe we can plug it up by catching an incoming asteroid with it, thereby solving two problems at once.
Catastrophic climate change. I like that. Too bad we have little information on climate the last time this world went through an ice age cycle.
Hm… maybe humans are the Deca to the earth’s usual test p cycle.
Quicker results, with most likely the same end result. More water acting as the natural CO2 sink, lowering atmospheric CO2 levels. Less CO2, thinning out the atmosphere, allowing for the releasing of radiant energy in the form of heat into outer space. Global cooling and chilly weather.
I’m sure humans will blame that on themselves, too.