Girlfriend Wants to Get Married, Dilemma

Off Topic
221

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
Really?

I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.

BTW, I’ve been married 24+ years. Lived with my husband before marriage. And the idea to get married was 100% his idea.

[/quote]

Great post Snap. And congrats on 24 years. My parents just hit 50 a couple of weeks ago.

So many people are over-thinking and over-analyzing all of this. It’s really not as tough as everyone is making it sound and Snap and Derek nailed it.It’s about deciding whether or not to make a commitment to work together and that takes a lot of communication.

All this talk about feminism destroying America and how we’re godless etc, etc, etc, is simply verbal masturbation. And the thought that there aren’t any reasonable women in North America is simply ridiculous. I’ve dated some really wonderful women and I’m now married to one. How can my experience be so much different than so many of yours?

You know what I think? I think that you if have only had bad experiences with “psycho” women or men that you’re somehow reaping what you sow. Take a look at the people you’re interested in. Take a look at the people that are interested in you. Maybe it’s not that all women are crazy or bitches and all men are dicks. Maybe it’s because you’re attracting that sort of person.

james

222

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

You know what I think? I think that you if have only had bad experiences with “psycho” women or men that you’re somehow reaping what you sow.
[/quote]

Exactly. There are many happily married men here on T-Nation. Come over the O35 site. James, Pete, Bulldog, Strick, Derek, etc. all speak about having a great partner.

If you continue to draw the wrong type, have the presence of mind to step back and take a good look at yourself.

223

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
Really?

I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.

BTW, I’ve been married 24+ years. Lived with my husband before marriage. And the idea to get married was 100% his idea.

[/quote]

Great post Snap. And congrats on 24 years. My parents just hit 50 a couple of weeks ago.

So many people are over-thinking and over-analyzing all of this. It’s really not as tough as everyone is making it sound and Snap and Derek nailed it.It’s about deciding whether or not to make a commitment to work together and that takes a lot of communication.

All this talk about feminism destroying America and how we’re godless etc, etc, etc, is simply verbal masturbation. And the thought that there aren’t any reasonable women in North America is simply ridiculous. I’ve dated some really wonderful women and I’m now married to one. How can my experience be so much different than so many of yours?

You know what I think? I think that you if have only had bad experiences with “psycho” women or men that you’re somehow reaping what you sow. Take a look at the people you’re interested in. Take a look at the people that are interested in you. Maybe it’s not that all women are crazy or bitches and all men are dicks. Maybe it’s because you’re attracting that sort of person.

james
[/quote]

Great post.

I’m glad to see the tide turning in this thread away from posters who are jaded by their life experience (and possibly approach to life) toward a more positive outlook on marriage and commitment.

224

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.
[/quote]

Excellent advice; thank you.

225

[quote]on edge wrote:
Alpha F, did you used to post as Alpha Female?

Question not related to anything in this thread. Just curious.[/quote]

No. I have never changed my user name.
I was, however, asked to clarify what the F stood for so in a thread a long time ago I did explain that my user name stood for Alpha Female.
Also there was a thread about user names and how did you chose yours.

I posted there explaining I chose mine after the supplement Alpha Male which was very popular at the time and I wished there was a supplement called Alpha Female. And later explained that the best testosterone booster for a man is a woman.

…A sandwich giving, sexually generous, woman, of course.

:slight_smile:

We joined T nation on the same year, so you may remember these threads!

226

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Well, “American women” and “feminists” are not well loved in these types of threads. If there is one single reasonable woman in the entirety of North America, why, that would come as some surprise![/quote]

I think it takes two to tango.
It would be interesting to investigate the other side of the story; “American males”.
As I have already expressed I felt the OP was weak in his actions and is reaping what he has sown.

I am under the impression it was the feminist movement that upset the dynamics and created a war of the sexes in this culture - and the whole pet love as a substitute for, or a weakened, a profound emotional connection between the couple.
But I could be wrong.

I also think God is missing from your culture in a very substantial way and it has been replaced by other things - this weakens the head of the family: The man. Subsequently, this makes the women erratic, clingy, needy, lost and insecure: like a pet without its owner.

Perhaps you, in your uniqueness, could just simply stand on your own two feet as a woman in your own right;
Refraining from identifications such as “I am” a feminist or “I am” an American woman.

[/quote]

Good golly, you speak some sense woman.

227

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
Alpha F, did you used to post as Alpha Female?

Question not related to anything in this thread. Just curious.[/quote]

No. I have never changed my user name.
I was, however, asked to clarify what the F stood for so in a thread a long time ago I did explain that my user name stood for Alpha Female.
Also there was a thread about user names and how did you chose yours.

I posted there explaining I chose mine after the supplement Alpha Male which was very popular at the time and I wished there was a supplement called Alpha Female. And later explained that the best testosterone booster for a man is a woman.

…A sandwich giving, sexually generous, woman, of course.

:slight_smile:

We joined T nation on the same year, so you may remember these threads!
[/quote]

I remember a poster who went by Alpha Female in my early days. It’s quite possible I read your post about it standing for Alpha Female then just remembered it that way.

From what I’ve read of your posts lately, Awesome F would be perfectly appropriate for you too.

228

I just did a member search for Alpha Female and didn’t find one. I guess that was you!

229

[quote]Cortes wrote:

I have missed reading your posts, AF. It’s been a profound pleasure, as always, to get to hear your opinion throughout this thread. I got here late so I’ve been holding my tongue until now. You are welcome to read my thoughts regarding this issue in the Pussywhipped, Game or Way of Men threads, though there’ve been a few before those. This has been a hot topic of late. I don’t think you and I disagree about too much.

Hope you’ll be sticking around. Be nice if that husband of yours ever decided to grace us with his presence again, too. I miss his pure, salty genius, as well. (^_^)[/quote]

Likewise, my friend, likewise! And thank you for the kind words.
I have just finished reading Pussywhipped; your posts are insightful, transparent and therefore refreshing.

I go for long periods without checking here, but when I do I always look out for your posts.
Saw your picture in the “Post your Lifts” in PWI: Stallion quality, I tell you.
Made me wish I was a Japanese lady to make you a sushi, :slight_smile:
( I don’t feed my husband sandwiches, either; always real food ).

Bill was very impressed with your lifts and commented specifically on your bench press number!
He did post a little on PWI under my name just for fun ( the Russians thread ) but you can still find him on Supplements and Nutrition. He says there haven’t been really any thing to reply to when he checks so that is why he is not posting so much.

I was thinking of Texas as a possible place to live. But I need the Ocean, and the Gulf beaches there I hear are not so great. I took up that sport that I posted on the previous page with the Australian women; prone paddleboard or knee paddleboard. So I need to stay by the water.

Maybe you will come back to the US one day and we can meet somewhere in Texas, eh?

In the mean time, keep up the good work.
Reading your posts makes me feel like I have a brother.

230

[quote]on edge wrote:

I remember a poster who went by Alpha Female in my early days. It’s quite possible I read your post about it standing for Alpha Female then just remembered it that way.

From what I’ve read of your posts lately, Awesome F would be perfectly appropriate for you too.[/quote]

Thank you!

I do enjoy your posts also, I find myself saying after I read: “He makes sense.”

Which is a rare achievement in our society today, eh…

231

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

You know what I think? I think that you if have only had bad experiences with “psycho” women or men that you’re somehow reaping what you sow.
[/quote]

This X1000000000000

233

Oh, and push, Bill started doing Zercher squats again after watching your performance!

Apologies for all the hijack, everyone.

234

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Just a random thought after reading this thread – It seems that an abundance of modern women are not familiar with the phrase Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. They rush into playing house to show their love interest what a great catch they are and, in turn, take away the man’s incentive to make a commitment. [/quote]

Really?

I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.

BTW, I’ve been married 24+ years. Lived with my husband before marriage. And the idea to get married was 100% his idea.

[/quote]

wow - you must have gotten married when you were nine, Snapper~

(wink)

235

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Em, I think it would behoove you to reconsider whether you really are a “feminist” or if it’s just something in vogue to say.[/quote]

That’s what I’m starting to think, too. (^^)

236

[quote]jewishthunder wrote:
Hey so my girlfriend of 5 years whom I love very much is really pushing to get married. Yesterday. That kind of pressure. Keep in mind we are both 24. Have had some ups and downs in our relationship. We share a dog, apartment and a lot of other random shit. Not that that really matters in this.

To those who have been in the situation of not wanting to get married, what’s the play here. It has gotten to the point of an ultimatum almost of marry her or be single.

I just don’t want to get married right now. It’s not her, it’s just the activity. I don’t wanna.

TL:DR GF of 5 years wants to get married ASAP, I don’t. Thoughts?[/quote]

Marriages can go wrong 20 years down the road… You can wait another 5 years than marry her, but make her pissed off jn the meantime… Or just marry her now and it can fail in 3 , 5’, 10 25 years or it can just last forever… There is no certainty… If she has a solid career as well than there is no financial risk. If you let her go… You may spend 5 years going through all the bullshit for someone else who most likely will not be better, u will be crying yourself to sleep dating a bunch of slags and missing the hell out of your girlfriend who seemed to be good enough for you for 5 years

Anyways the last thing you want is a stay at home wife looking for a free ride don’t be a schmuck… Shell raise a few kids than come time for you to retire, when the kids are gone shell take off with half of your assets and hard work, and be a cougar, meanwhile you supported her the whole time. If she has a career, f**** marry her you cant go wrong

Two young people splitting expenses have got the world by the bollox, do we not live for sex and money?

Even if it fails in 10 years… If it lasts that long means u had a good time, go for it plus… You’ll still be young. Basically it comes down to this… Money. Accept the terrible truth.

However scenario 2 she just wants to leech off of you, lock in her cash machine, is unpleasant but puts out, if thats the case just be happy u didnt have a kid with er and let her run on… Run like hell, say no and run like hell. Not being a feminist i judge women just as hard as they judge men, rather be single than stuck with a loser. U want me to be educated? U want me to be fit? U better have that too or you can go to hades.

Imagine financing kids and a stay at hime wife on one salary, who pussy whips you and doesn’t contribute who you only stay with because divorce would be more than you can handle, is that real freedom? Life is too short to make these mistakes, you have to do it right the first time around

As nietzsche once said, live dangerously, build your temple on the edge of mount vesuvius, take the noble risks. You like getting bjs from your gf but cant marry her ya hypocryte aye!

237

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Just a random thought after reading this thread – It seems that an abundance of modern women are not familiar with the phrase Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. They rush into playing house to show their love interest what a great catch they are and, in turn, take away the man’s incentive to make a commitment. [/quote]

Really?

I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.

BTW, I’ve been married 24+ years. Lived with my husband before marriage. And the idea to get married was 100% his idea.

[/quote]

Really.

Congratulations on your 24 year together. That’s pretty awesome.

The type of women that I’m talking about are the ones that put out on the first date and they cry to their friends about “Why won’t he call me back?”. Or the ones that take it upon themselves to do their boyfriends laundry, clean his apartment and other “wife” duties and then cry to anyone who will listen about everything they did for him and then he had the nerve to leave her. IMO this type of behavior doesn’t garner many wedding proposals. If another woman is happy with that then fine, I don’t judge. I just don’t like it when I am put in the position to hear all of that drama. I don’t do drama.

238

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Just a random thought after reading this thread – It seems that an abundance of modern women are not familiar with the phrase Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. They rush into playing house to show their love interest what a great catch they are and, in turn, take away the man’s incentive to make a commitment. [/quote]

Really?

I think people should get married because they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to formalize the commitment to do so. That’s it. All of this other stuff is game playing. I believe it makes tremendous sense to live together before marriage. Put all the cards on the table and decide whether it’s appealing. Because marriage takes a lot of work and compromise and willingness to wade through periods of shit. And if the courtship never gets beyond the game (which, of course, there is game playing on both sides to some degree), there will be some sore disappointments.

BTW, I’ve been married 24+ years. Lived with my husband before marriage. And the idea to get married was 100% his idea.

[/quote]

Really.

Congratulations on your 24 year together. That’s pretty awesome.

The type of women that I’m talking about are the ones that put out on the first date and they cry to their friends about “Why won’t he call me back?”. Or the ones that take it upon themselves to do their boyfriends laundry, clean his apartment and other “wife” duties and then cry to anyone who will listen about everything they did for him and then he had the nerve to leave her. IMO this type of behavior doesn’t garner many wedding proposals. If another woman is happy with that then fine, I don’t judge. I just don’t like it when I am put in the position to hear all of that drama. I don’t do drama.

[/quote]

I think you were right, Jackie. Women who agree to do everything that marriage promises leave no psychological incentive for a man to commit to her thereafter, particularly given the spectacularly bad deal men get relative to women.

I’m glad that kpsnap had a good, lasting marriage despite having done that, but that does not mean that it is logically sound behavior or even good advice. The most important part of marriage is that it is (supposed to be) permanent. The permanence of that bond is meant to act as a bulwark against caprice and to ensure fidelity, stability and respect. But what incentive is left to live commit yourself to ONE female, for the rest of your life, and if you change your mind she gets half your stuff and if you have kids a paycheck for up to 18 years thereafter? You had it exactly right. If more women would hold certain things as sacred, if nothing else not live together before matrimony, it would go a long way toward creating a more sound, lasting bond between her and her man after they finally did marry.

I mean, that is how it used to be done, for the most part. And we didn’t have nearly so many problems with the institution as we do now.

239

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
The type of women that I’m talking about are the ones that put out on the first date [/quote]

My wife and I had sex on our first date. What’s the problem with that? It sounds (even though you probably don’t mean it that way) like you’re using the promise of sex as a lure. My wife and I were attracted to each other, enjoy sex, and are adults. Neither of us saw any reason to wait. And we didn’t go into the relationship thinking that it would ultimately lead to marriage. We simply went on a date with no expectations. I didn’t (and don’t) think any less of her because of what we did and I wouldn’t have thought any more of her if we didn’t. I think that’s what being an adult is all about. But your mileage may vary.

james

240

[quote]Cortes wrote:

I think you were right, Jackie. Women who agree to do everything that marriage promises leave no psychological incentive for a man to commit to her thereafter, particularly given the spectacularly bad deal men get relative to women. [/quote]

You mean aside from the incentive of being in love and wanting to spend the rest of our lives together? Because I didn’t marry my wife in the hope that she would have sex with me or do my laundry. I can do both of those on my own quite well. I married her because I love her.

It’s really, really simple. If you love the other person and want to spend the rest of your lives together then get married. If you want to have sex or get your laundry done then hire a maid and find people to have sex with. It’s a lot cheaper and a lot less work.

james