GH for Fat Loss

Pharma
1

A guy I know (thank you, but no it’s really not me ;). It actually is another person) is looking into using GH as part of a fat loss plan. I’ve tried to talk him out of using it, just because I don’t think it’s necessary. But he wants to try it.

So, what’s the consensus on GH for fat loss? He’s got his other training and nutrition down, no worries there. No thyroid meds either.

As far as undergoing ‘meso’ changes, I believe the IM route on non-consecutive days that BBB posted a while back is probably the most sensical. But as far as simple fat loss, does an ED sub-q protocol work well, or is it outmoded also?

As a further question, because doses seem to vary so much and he has expressed a desire to keep sides at a minimum while he runs the experiment, what’s the practical lower and upper daily dose for avoiding most sides? How effective is a low dose protocol?

I recall something along the lines of 5 IU as an upper limit for newbs to GH but I couldn’t say with any certainty. I would assume 2-3 IU daily sub-q PWO for 10-12 weeks is a good starting point, but I would like to get some advice from vets on the subject. After assessing sides, ramping up with an injection in the morning because of high cortisol levels then…

I’d really like to be able to help the boy out so he doesn’t do something stupid and screw himself up. Any thoughts/links/flames?

2

There is no problem with using GH for fat loss.

But it needs to be stacked with AAS to be effective.

And if your young, your GH levels are likely so high that further supplementation would not be as noticeable.

3

[quote]Westclock wrote:

And if your young, your GH levels are likely so high that further supplementation would not be as noticeable.[/quote]

How true is this?

I am certainly not saying you are wrong, but we all know that this is not the case for AAS. How is GH different in that regard?

Why will supraphisiological levels of AAS in a person with high T levels yield noticeable results but artificially high levels of GH in someone with high levels not be as noticeable?

Is it that one with already high levels of GH would need to use so much exo GH that the sides/gains ratio would be unfavorable?

4

Thanks. I didn’t believe there would be a physical problem with him using it per se, just that it wasn’t needed and he was being stubborn. He won’t have any of it. sigh.

I suppose I should have clarified part of my question.

When’s the best time to inject if you only have 1 injection of about 2 IU? When’s the second best time to inject? Third?

I was thinking PWO, morning, pre workout in that order of priority.

I was also wondering how much of a boost in getting lean a low dose GH cycle had over not using it with AAS, if anyone could give me a comparison.

Finally, I was wondering about protocols used successfully for simple fat loss, and whether 2-5 IU daily sub-q was efficient for that or whether it was outmoded by the IM route.

6

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Westclock wrote:

And if your young, your GH levels are likely so high that further supplementation would not be as noticeable.

How true is this?

I am certainly not saying you are wrong, but we all know that this is not the case for AAS. How is GH different in that regard?

Why will supraphisiological levels of AAS in a person with high T levels yield noticeable results but artificially high levels of GH in someone with high levels not be as noticeable?

Is it that one with already high levels of GH would need to use so much exo GH that the sides/gains ratio would be unfavorable? [/quote]

Alot of people spout off the whole “young high levels” thing without really understanding why. My understanding of GH is probably not much better than yours, but from what I have read:

You are technically correct that using dramatically larger amounts would yield more results, but its just that GH is so expensive, using extremely high amounts simply isnt feasible.

Not to mention that they havent really perfected a “time release” for GH yet, so youd have to give yourself a very large number of shots per day.

And if you used extremely high levels your likely to get some odd side effects.

To relate it to test with a loose analogy, certainly 1000mg/week yeilds way better gains than 250mg/week.

BUT youll need an AI and possibly durastride or some DHT control to run the 1000mg/week. And 250mg/week still has some nice effects, and you can get away with no AI or DHT defense.

There are no ancillaries for GH related “side effects”

I call them side effects but they are more like normal effects that you dont want.

7

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Get up, inject 2.5iu intramuscular (NEVER bother with subQ again folks, IMO), drink 30-50g whey and hit the gym.

Simple and works for me.

BBB[/quote]

minor hijack…are you still using slin pins for this or regular syringes?

10

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Westclock wrote:
Not to mention that they havent really perfected a “time release” for GH yet, so youd have to give yourself a very large number of shots per day.

And if you used extremely high levels your likely to get some odd side effects.

And since ‘timed release’ is totally NOT how the body does it anyway, lets hope they never try to develop such a thing. Though I’m sure someone will think it’s a good idea.

And talking about side effects, aside from carpal tunnel and some transient edema, the sides from GH are mild.

And in fact if you look at the characteristics of a GH releasing tumour and the resulting acromegally, it is the sheer fact that there is never a zero period in terms of GH secretion that seems to be the initiator for AM.

So, as I pointed out in another thread, you WANT multiple daily injections (but not ED) and you DON’T want a ‘timed release’ (read ‘subcut’) injection protocol, if you want:

A) results
b) An avoidance of sides (other than CT which if you are prone to it, you’ll get anyway, pretty much).

BBB[/quote]

What about the possibility for other unwanted bone growth. I remember some of the sprinters were in braces to help with the teeth while their jaws changed.

Certainly the carpal tunnel is caused by the digits growing.
There must be a possibility that other bones would grow as well.

Also, how long is GH active in the body ? I believe it was less than an hour ?

11

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Westclock wrote:
Not to mention that they havent really perfected a “time release” for GH yet, so youd have to give yourself a very large number of shots per day.

And if you used extremely high levels your likely to get some odd side effects.

And since ‘timed release’ is totally NOT how the body does it anyway, lets hope they never try to develop such a thing. Though I’m sure someone will think it’s a good idea.

BBB[/quote]

Exactly - it is a pulsatile secreted hormone.

12

I believe the carpal tunnel is caused by tendons getting more hydrated and thus voluminous, causing frictional discomfort. It’s sort of like inflammation.

14

Thanks for expanding on that BBB…

15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Get up, inject 2.5iu intramuscular (NEVER bother with subQ again folks, IMO), drink 30-50g whey and hit the gym.

Simple and works for me.

BBB

minor hijack…are you still using slin pins for this or regular syringes?

Slin pins - of course. It’s a water based drug.

BBB[/quote]

Forgive my ignorance, I just didn’t know if a slin pin was long enough for a true IM injection. I haven’t fooled with peptides or reconstituted anything yet so I had no idea. Thanks for the response.

16

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
And in fact if you look at the characteristics of a GH releasing tumour and the resulting acromegally, it is the sheer fact that there is never a zero period in terms of GH secretion that seems to be the initiator for AM.

So, as I pointed out in another thread, you WANT multiple daily injections (but not ED) and you DON’T want a ‘timed release’ (read ‘subcut’) injection protocol, if you want:
[/quote]

I wanted to find your protocol recently before, as you had a new thread referring to it, but didn’t succeed in doing so. So I am, unfortunately, operating in ignorance of what you had said before.

I want to understand what you are saying here with regards to avoiding acromegaly. Actually I can’t afford GH these days anyway (am instead relying on hopefully a slight edge, maybe equivalent to getting me back in terms of GH to where I was in my mid-30s when I am in fact 46, on modest dose GHRP-6) but still would like to know.

Are you saying above that the thing to do is to use multiple daily injections much of the time, but not every day, and this should avoid acromegaly?

17

Bill, here is the initial thread:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/need_hgh_help_please?id=2792376&pageNo=0

The thread was continued here:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/the_hgh_experiement

18

Thanks!

I have to go out of town for a wedding early tomorrow, and am headed to bed now, but will definitely read this when I get back.