Get Busy Living, or...

Pharma TRT
1

Anyone who’s ever seen Shawshank can finish off the quote I used to title this thread. I’ll tell my story in detail as I go, but for now it’s important for me to do this and write something, because I have been suffering from almost all the symptoms I’ve read in these threads for as long as I can remember, and in the last 3 years it’s reached a critical mass of suffering. I don’t live anymore. I’m just existing, grinding from day to day cos I’m too stubborn to die. But that stubbornness may be just what I need to take a chance on reaching out, talking, listening, reading and learning, and seeing it there’s something I can do to get my life back.

-age 42 (dob 12/1/70)
-height - 6.0
-waist - 34
-weight - 222

-describe body and facial hair
can grow full beard in a week, hairy legs and forearms, medium on chest, belly and thighs

-describe where you carry fat and how changed
fat collects on hips, pecs and upper arms. 4 years ago I beefed up to 275 and had enough fat around my pecs that I had cellulite on my left anterior deltoid

-health conditions, symptoms [history]
significant depression since age 13, treated off and on with SSRIs and one 2-year period of meds for Bipolar II (lamictal, wellbutrin and a very speedy sleepless month on adderall). abused alcohol regularly for 20 years, now sober for last 16 months

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
aforementioned anti-depressants. no hair loss or prostate drugs

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]
IIFYM following 80/20 rule with emphasis on lean protein. Was anorexic at age 15 and have struggled with weight and body issues since, but no starvation diets

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]
could be a factor. regular (5x week) weight training for 30 years, and in the last 4 years I spent one year running 50-100 miles weekly for marathon training, then another year doing 6x week Crossfit, then 6x week Olympic lift training, and the last year have averaged 13 sessions per week w/ high-intensity strength training based on Mountain Dog training. Lifting helps me manage my mood, but definitely to my detriment. I am addicted and do not do well with days off.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever?
no

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed
only time I get erections are when I have not slept enough. Used to be a common feature of my drinking days… on bad mornings I’d wake up rock hard and horny, but the last year, and esp. the last 3 months, I’ve lost my libido completely and almost never have a full erection.

Blood work to come. I have been without insurance for some time, but just got coverage and am going to find a PCP this week and ask for full blood work as specified here. I did do a T test at labcorp this week and came back with a total T count of 388.

No questions at this point. Just wanted to start a thread to make myself responsible to keep up with this. One of the worst parts about depression is the complete lack of caring about helping oneself. The only thing that really keeps me going is my dog. If I saw her as listless and sad as I feel, I’d do whatever it took to help her, so I guess I owe it to myself to do the same.

And thanks to KSman and all the others for your time and energy and wisdom. I believe most of the “low T” hype is carny hucksterism, and this is one of the first resources I’ve found where adults are talking about real issues and real solution to a very real problem.

Thanks,

Sean

2

-Brain fog, no one knows what that means but everyone knows if they have it!
Yep. Severely. I left a career in science publishing to start a company that grossed over $400K in 2 years and then just left it because I had no energy for it anymore. Now if I work more than 25 hours a week I am exhausted.

-Social withdrawal - “I would rather not go out”
Yes. I never go out. Love music, used to love shows. Made it 90% thru the last show I went to, and then bailed on a big outdoor festival I had spent $140 on just 30 mins in because I was tired… at 5 PM on a Friday.

-Why do I have boobs? This really is depressing if prolactin is the cause!
-Why do I carry fat like a woman?
I’ve gotten leaner, but when fat I collect it on hips and pecs.

-Why am I a moody bitch?
Good fucking question. I can be horrible with people for no good reason, so I avoid them as much as possible.

-Can’t get it up?
-It is up, now it’s gone.
-My penis is numb -your nerves love T too. Things to do with testosterone cream.
No creams, but I haven’t had a satisfying orgasm in three months. Haven’t even considered sex in 3 years.

-Why do really hot looking women and girls now look like art instead of lust?
Yep. Professionally it’s an advantage (I can see all clients as people and not be distracted by lust) but I fear a lifetime of asexual isolation unless things change.

-Why do really stressful situations leave me feeling physically beat up. Adrenal fatigue.
-I am not depressed, I just don’t care about anything, no joy, no motivation, no reward
Am depressed. No real joy in my day. Sex, food, music… it’s all lost it’s flavor. I wake to sleep and back again.

3

-Brain fog, no one knows what that means but everyone knows if they have it!
Yep. Severely. I left a career in science publishing to start a company that grossed over $400K in 2 years and then just left it because I had no energy for it anymore. Now if I work more than 25 hours a week I am exhausted.

-Social withdrawal - “I would rather not go out”
Yes. I never go out. Love music, used to love shows. Made it 90% thru the last show I went to, and then bailed on a big outdoor festival I had spent $140 on just 30 mins in because I was tired… at 5 PM on a Friday.

-Why do I have boobs? This really is depressing if prolactin is the cause!
-Why do I carry fat like a woman?
I’ve gotten leaner, but when fat I collect it on hips and pecs.

-Why am I a moody bitch?
Good fucking question. I can be horrible with people for no good reason, so I avoid them as much as possible.

-Can’t get it up?
-It is up, now it’s gone.
-My penis is numb -your nerves love T too. Things to do with testosterone cream.
No creams, but I haven’t had a satisfying orgasm in three months. Haven’t even considered sex in 3 years.

-Why do really hot looking women and girls now look like art instead of lust?
Yep. Professionally it’s an advantage (I can see all clients as people and not be distracted by lust) but I fear a lifetime of asexual isolation unless things change.

-Why do really stressful situations leave me feeling physically beat up. Adrenal fatigue.
-I am not depressed, I just don’t care about anything, no joy, no motivation, no reward
Am depressed. No real joy in my day. Sex, food, music… it’s all lost it’s flavor. I wake to sleep and back again.

4

Hello looks like your t is within range but still low. Please post blood work when you get them. In the meantime I would look to test body temp and look for ir. I would try to eat as clean as possible. But eventually look for trt.

5

Shawshank, great film.
See, you have passion about something.

Sorry to hear about your situation, bloodwork will really help in figuring out your issues.
In the meantime…

Things that standout from your post:
You are a classic over trainer. I know you are aware of this fact, but you need to do something about it.
Find another hobby to fill some of your free time. Reading, Gardening, Yoga, building, remodeling, birding,
learn to play an instrument etc. You are running yourself into the ground and cardio lowers your Test big time.

Your body sees cardio as work, its sees your body as a load that needs to be carried from A to B.
To help you in your work, it lightens the load, and by load I mean muscle mass. How is that
accomplished ? Lower T and muscles metabolized, fat is spared for energy, emergency energy.
Can you guess which hormone helps to store and save fat ? Yep Estrogen, its the reason you feel bitchy,
one of the reasons for moobs, and female fat distribution. Oh, and it’s pretty hard on your sex drive.

Becoming Estrogen dominant, is a real bitch (pun intended). The irony is, you are trying to take care of your
self with all the Hiit, Cardio, Marathon etc, but you are setting yourself up for failure. I know for some
guys cardio works, but for most its a trap…myself included.

I’m no expert where depression is concerned, but many a case I have read has had depression related
to estrogen dominance in men. I am 44, married, two kids, a business and at 41 I was getting depressed, and
was becoming somewhat of a bitch. Everything bothered me, I was always tired despite a good diet,
exercise and sleep. I thought I was just getting old, and older people lose their sex drive, have to take Viagra,
and just cope with the shitty feelings inside from day to day. I Wondered if I was depressed. After a
complication with my vasectomy, I got some bloodwork that showed my test at 288 ! No wonder I was such
an asshole ! LOL.

Fast forward to getting a TRT regimen that works for me, I feel 1000x better. I’m optimistic, have loads of
energy, my cat couldn’t scratch my morning if he tried, more patients with my kids, and my wife has
somewhat of a perma smile these days.

So don’t give up, its gonna be a bumpy ride getting to where you need to be, but It’ll be worth it.
You’ll see.

6

Flint -

I used to have most of your symptom’s and took a similar route at first. Wthout the beard growth!

Cursory data in your story shows some hi estrogen, but that is not the main thing I would suggest looking at. Anastrozole will take care of that if appropriate. When you use SSRI’s you move serotonin around in your body, then deplete it.

I would first look at neurotransmitter repletion, specifically dopamine, serotonin. I took testing for MFHTR gene and found that I have a problem moving these across the BBB. Deplin, L-methylfolate will resolve this. Dopamine and serotonin imbalance and lack will cause brainfog, lack of energy, etc. Rebalancing will go a long way to resolving.

Food - read two books: Dr. Mark Hyman - the Ultramind solution; Dr. william Wolcott - the metabolic typing diet;

I had looked at data and had almost resolved it but couldn’t find total resolution; look at data - what you ingest (food and drink); how does it affect you; if negatively, throw it out. Short story is that you and your friends have different skin, hair, height, musculature, etc. and thus, you have a slightly different appearing stomach / GI tract.

Implications are that you metabolize food, drink differently. Food that might be healthy for them may be poison for you. I.e., white meat chicken makes my sinuses inflamed but dark meat causes me to lose fat. As long as I don’t thrown on breads/grains. That is, for me. Not necessarily for you.

Replete serotonin and dopamine; add GABA for calm and treat your mind and body at same time; fast.

7

Also, yes, adrenal fatigue seems like a huge factor. Rhodiola in the morning is my go to supplement. By the way, caffeine may act as a sedative instead of as a stimulant. Different people have different mechanisms in use.

Boobs with lo-fat overall - E2 too high; also cuases reduced libido, moodiness

Get busy living - that is the right attitude, so like the guy said about Shawashank, you do have so e passion. That is good. When that returns all the rest of the issues are starting to get in line and they grow together.

Biggest lesson for me is that each individual is just that - an individual. And that will be the key for you looking at your data.

T3/T4, iodine - thyroid will likley be a huge factor. When that is in place other issues start resolving as well. Look for forward thinking physicians that treat individuals.

8

Test of 338 is very low.

9

[quote]PKNY wrote:

You are a classic over trainer. I know you are aware of this fact, but you need to do something about it.
Find another hobby to fill some of your free time. Reading, Gardening, Yoga, building, remodeling, birding,
learn to play an instrument etc. You are running yourself into the ground and cardio lowers your Test big time.

Your body sees cardio as work, its sees your body as a load that needs to be carried from A to B.
To help you in your work, it lightens the load, and by load I mean muscle mass. How is that
accomplished ? Lower T and muscles metabolized, fat is spared for energy, emergency energy.
Can you guess which hormone helps to store and save fat ? Yep Estrogen, its the reason you feel bitchy,
one of the reasons for moobs, and female fat distribution. Oh, and it’s pretty hard on your sex drive.

Becoming Estrogen dominant, is a real bitch (pun intended). The irony is, you are trying to take care of your
self with all the Hiit, Cardio, Marathon etc, but you are setting yourself up for failure. I know for some
guys cardio works, but for most its a trap…myself included.
[/quote]

Agreed and understood. I injured my low back severely after my last marathon, and was really seeing that cardio wasn’t working for me in terms of body composition… that’s why I turned to XFit, Olys, and now back to more classic bodybuilding training. It’s working OK in terms of body comp. I’ve lost 60 pounds of fat and am down to about 12% BF, but I’m also doing pretty hard weight training 12 sessions a week and 2-3 sessions of Westside-style recovery work (sled drags, battle ropes, plyos, etc), and starting to wonder if what I’m doing is training like a geared lifter but without the benefits of gear to keep my T levels up.

Honest truth, I love lifting and feel that it makes everything in my life better. It is my key for managing my addictions and for keeping mentally healthy (as well as paying the bills, I’m a Personal Trainer). I used to have other hobbies, like surfing and playing music, and one of the warning bells for me about this was that I’ve spent the last 2 years living on the beach next to my favorite surf break in the world with all the free time I need and a great classic longboard to ride, and I’ve paddled out exactly once in all that time because I just can’t seem to find the energy to put on a wetsuit. Crazy behavior. I know I need other stuff to do, but in a weird way the only thing I have energy for is lifting, like it’s my Sisypsusian rock and I’m gonna keep rolling that fucker no matter what.

Ideally I’d like to get a handle on my thyroid, adrenal and T situations, find an evidence-based doc who is open to new information, and work on getting my levels just to normal. Like others have mentioned here, I’m not looking to unseat Phil Heath or win an Ironman. I’m 30 years into natural training and honestly still conflicted about supplementing T at all because I’m proud of all I’ve been able to do without gear, but I get that as long as I’m not targeting supra-physiological levels, it’s not PED use and it’s fair game. I suspect this has been going on for a while (first heard complaints from a GF 15 years ago when she mentioned to friends of ours that I wasn’t as interested in sex as she expected… and she was right), but I never took it as a warning sign till now. Add in the issues of heart disease and addiction in my known family history (I only know one side… my bio father refuses to acknowledge me) and I have to admit I’m feeling a little too mortal.

Could I have done some real damage to my liver with alcohol? Could the low T reading and impotence be a warning sign of future cardiac issues? Am I supposed to just accept that I’ll spend the rest of my life sad and alone and watching for more signs of ill-health?

I think not. And with help from y’all, I logically concluded I can change.

10

Got an oral thermometer from Target and just did a PWO reading at 1.00PM

98.8. So there’s that. Will check early AM and mid-afternoon, but I don’t tend to cold, so thyroid may not be my big issue.

I do use caffeine (coffee and Monster Rehab) and nicotine (4 mg gum) daily, so if there’s any science to adrenal fatigue, that might be an issue.

11

temp readings between 7-7.20am
95 and 96.4 (up and about)

lower than i expected. will check mid-day.

12

Set up an appointment with a GP who specializes in Men’s Health for next Monday and informed him I want full blood work done for hormones, thyroid and liver and kidney. Will print out a list from the “New Guys” sticky to bring with me so I get all the info I need.

I also have signed up for information from HRT Clinics and have an inbox full of offers, but I’m going to go the medical route first and check in to see what I can do with the least-invasive solution possible. Something about sending a credit card number to South Florida to deal with a legit medical issues seems suspect to me…

13

temp up to 98.6 at 3pm.

14

waking temp, 5.30 am, 95.2