[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Nope, the astonishing hypocrisy is why do the people who condemned the US for aproving the Israel/Lebanon war, for the bombing and forced surrender of Kosovo now praise Russia’s aggressive actions?[/quote]
No one on the right side of this issue is making that argument. Everyone fully recognizes that Russia attacked with disproportionate force. We are just recognizing that US officials need to shut their mouthes about what Russia does.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Pat Buchanan gets it right.
[center][b]Is Not Western Hypocrisy Astonishing?[/b]
by Patrick J. Buchanan[/center]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan93.html
[i] American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight -- Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.
Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.
True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?
Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?[/i]
[/quote]
He is wrong again. Russia has been occupying Georgian provinces under the guise of peacekeeping for years but they have been inciting violence rather than keeping the peace. This attack was planned by Russia long ago. They finally proked Georgia into a response and then rolled the tanks.
Buchanan's hypocrisy is astonmishing.[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
He is wrong again. Russia has been occupying Georgian provinces under the guise of peacekeeping for years but they have been inciting violence rather than keeping the peace. This attack was planned by Russia long ago. They finally proked Georgia into a response and then rolled the tanks.
Buchanan’s hypocrisy is astonmishing.[/quote]
He is merely commenting on the punditry surrounding the issue on American soil by the neocon contingent. The hypocrisy is not contained in the actions of Russia but rather the words of US officials.
We can all agree on the ill-conceived politics surrounding this situation and the fact Russia acted too harshly.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
He is wrong again. Russia has been occupying Georgian provinces under the guise of peacekeeping for years but they have been inciting violence rather than keeping the peace. This attack was planned by Russia long ago. They finally proked Georgia into a response and then rolled the tanks.
Buchanan’s hypocrisy is astonmishing.
He is merely commenting on the punditry surrounding the issue on American soil by the neocon contingent. The hypocrisy is not contained in the actions of Russia but rather the words of US officials.
We can all agree on the ill-conceived politics surrounding this situation and the fact Russia acted too harshly.[/quote]
He is parroting the Russian propaganda while ignoring the many, many differences between the situations.
He is a dishonest man appealing to his niche market.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
He is parroting the Russian propaganda while ignoring the many, many differences between the situations.
He is a dishonest man appealing to his niche market.
[/quote]
No, he plainly agreed that Russia acted with too much force. You are blinded by bias.
Yes, the situation is different. The US aggressed first against Iraq and Russia claims it was acting in self defense on behalf of the Ossetians.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Yes, the situation is different. The US aggressed first against Iraq and Russia claims it was acting in self defense on behalf of the Ossetians.[/quote]
You fail to realize that Russia attacked a US ally. By not condemning the Russian action, the US would have opened the floodgates for them to threaten, blackmail and invade the breakaway republics of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.
They already threatened Poland. Who’s next?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
You fail to realize that Russia attacked a US ally.[/quote]
I suppose then the US once again chose the wrong ally.
Maybe they didn’t anticipate a full Russian invasion.
Condemn away. But, let’s not set ourselves up for an unavoidable war with Russia over Georgia.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Condemn away. But, let’s not set ourselves up for an unavoidable war with Russia over Georgia.[/quote]
Finally the WWIII wet-dream will happen for these blood-thristy, chicken-hawk, neocon brutes. May they all sign up for the army and be sent to the frontlines to fight the good fight…and die a bloody warrior death.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Condemn away. But, let’s not set ourselves up for an unavoidable war with Russia over Georgia.
Finally the WWIII wet-dream will happen for these blood-thristy, chicken-hawk, neocon brutes. May they all sign up for the army and be sent to the frontlines to fight the good fight…and die a bloody warrior death.[/quote]
Idiot. No one wants WW3.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Idiot. No one wants WW3.[/quote]
You speak for everyone now? Bill Krystol practically squirts every time he talks about a possible conflict. He should be carrying the flag and lead the charge himself.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Pat Buchanan gets it right.
[center][b]Is Not Western Hypocrisy Astonishing?[/b]
by Patrick J. Buchanan[/center]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan93.html
[i] American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight -- Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.
Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.
True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?
Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?[/i]
[/quote]
I used to be a fan of Pat Buchanan and am sympathetic to some of his views. Lately, however, he's taken a turn for blaming the Jews for things and swinging from the balls of the Arabs. Anyone who blames the former for things without, AT THE VERY LEAST, giving equal time to the latter, is a kook in my opinion.
The paragraph starting at "True." was complete and utter bullshit and lacks any understanding of the "Shia Crescent" of terrorism. He is right about Serbia, though. We definitely bombed the wrong people there. But that was because Arab money told us that the Muslims in Kosovo were losing.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Condemn away. But, let’s not set ourselves up for an unavoidable war with Russia over Georgia.
Finally the WWIII wet-dream will happen for these blood-thristy, chicken-hawk, neocon brutes. May they all sign up for the army and be sent to the frontlines to fight the good fight…and die a bloody warrior death.[/quote]
I think you need to take some deep breaths and realize that that is not going to happen. We have a war on two-fronts and don’t have the resources for a third. But if it does happen, I owe you a coke.
I’d say the jihadists are more of a threat to global peace than Russia or the US by a long shot. 1400 years of jihad and counting, and hundreds of millions dead. The rest of us have awhile to catch up.
If Russian Peacekeepers were in S Ossetia and Georgia KNEW that along with the fact that like it or not, the people of S Ossetia were provided the opportunity to become Russian Citizens, many of which did. The President of Georgia is in all reality one dumb SOB. You cannot blame anything on russia here, they have every right and in fact should put as much pressure and influence on whoever they can USA does it in every instance, and so does almost every individual. It is human nature to want to have things your way. Unfortunately for the people of Georgia and S Ossetia, the georgian President appears to not value human life and shelled non military targets in S Ossetia.
I can’t imagine what he thought the outcome was going to be from that, but it is pretty much universally frowned upon and I’m actually surprised that people are even questioning Russia on thier response. If Quebec Shelled Niagrara Falls on the canadian side and a bunch of americans died, You bet your ass we the Mighty US would retaliate with amazing use of force. There wouldn’t be a canadian base that didn’t get creamed with missles and bombs.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If Russian Peacekeepers were in S Ossetia and Georgia KNEW that along with the fact that like it or not, the people of S Ossetia were provided the opportunity to become Russian Citizens, many of which did. The President of Georgia is in all reality one dumb SOB. You cannot blame anything on russia here, they have every right and in fact should put as much pressure and influence on whoever they can USA does it in every instance, and so does almost every individual. It is human nature to want to have things your way. Unfortunately for the people of Georgia and S Ossetia, the georgian President appears to not value human life and shelled non military targets in S Ossetia.
I can’t imagine what he thought the outcome was going to be from that, but it is pretty much universally frowned upon and I’m actually surprised that people are even questioning Russia on thier response. If Quebec Shelled Niagrara Falls on the canadian side and a bunch of americans died, You bet your ass we the Mighty US would retaliate with amazing use of force. There wouldn’t be a canadian base that didn’t get creamed with missles and bombs.
V[/quote]
You do realize that South Ossetia has been committing acts of violence against Georgia, don’t you? It has been an endless cycle of violence.
You do realize that Russia prepositioned troops and initiated computer attacks 3 weeks before they invaded don’t you?
Russia provoked this and now they are going to swallow parts of Georgia. Pure imperialism.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You do realize that South Ossetia has been committing acts of violence against Georgia, don’t you? It has been an endless cycle of violence.
[/quote]
How is it possible for a non-human entity to act? People act, countries do not. This is one line of collectivist reasoning that causes so much nationalistic hatred.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
You do realize that South Ossetia has been committing acts of violence against Georgia, don’t you? It has been an endless cycle of violence.
How is it possible for a non-human entity to act? People act, countries do not. This is one line of collectivist reasoning that causes so much nationalistic hatred.[/quote]
Note that Zap is invoking “endless cycle of violence” to justify Georgia’s shelling of civilian targets at ungodly hours.
But I suppose it’s consistent with his unconditional support of Israel…
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
How is it possible for a non-human entity to act? People act, countries do not. This is one line of collectivist reasoning that causes so much nationalistic hatred.[/quote]
Since you like to nitpick on this point, why, curiously, do you refer to “governments” as doing things?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Pat Buchanan gets it right.
[center][b]Is Not Western Hypocrisy Astonishing?[/b]
by Patrick J. Buchanan[/center]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan93.html
[i] American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight -- Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.
Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.
True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?
Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?[/i]
[/quote]
Buchanan has it exactly right, especially at the end when he discusses Americans' inability to see how other countries perceive us. Best thing I have read on the subject in a while.