[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I’ll cut through the bullshit/burden of proofs/and legal arguments:
Con-law problems aside, the real issue is the normalization of homosexuality in society. If you are against gay marriage, I have confidence that you are against it primarily because you don’t want homosexuality normalized. And that’s the same reason that homosexuals care about gay marriage: they want normalization.
I’m for gay marriage because I believe that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic and because gays, including people I am friends with and related to, have been attacked, assaulted and victimized merely because of this immutable characteristic. Treating homosexuality as something that is “abhorrent” and shunned makes it easier for bullies and thugs to continue this behavior. My son is 5 and if he turns out to be gay I do not want him to feel like he’s an outcast, constantly in fear of attacks, and forced to live in the closet to succeed professionally, merely because of the way he was born.
I realize that assaults and attacks are already illegal, but I believe that the primary thing that reduces these events generally isn’t the law, it is the normalization of homosexuality. Things, in my opinion, are getting better in this regard precisely because of the push for normalization. Dick Cheney realized this too when he was forced to deal with the issue directly and he couldn’t look his daughter in the face if he continued to oppose gay marriage.
If you can look a gay son or daughter in the eye and tell them that they are “abhorrent” or deviant because of they way they were born, then I guess that’s your business. But in my view, the state doesn’t have any business telling gays and lesbians that their sexual orientation isn’t “natural” or that they should not be allowed to choose and marry a mate consistent with their pre-disposed, sexual orientation.
So, my reason for supporting gay marriage is that I think it will help normalize homosexuality and make the world a less shitty place for 5 to 20 percent of the population and at the same time it won’t harm or impose any undue burden on the remaining 80-95% of the population.
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You didn’t really make any legal arguments, but to your larger point - I appreciate your candor. This is precisely the reason gay marriage advocates want gay marriage - it serves as a kind of cultural self-esteem project for the gay community.
Gay marriage doesn’t solve rational, pressing public policy problems - it serves to satisfy an emotional need for a cultural symbol.
It isn’t reason-based, it is emotion-based. That is the way it has always been. Thanks for crystalliziing that and dispensing with the other distractions.
Is that a sound basis for enacting public policy? Of course not. But at least the conversation about gay marriage can be honest.[/quote]
Basic human dignity has an “emotional” component to it but there is more to it than that. Using the word “emotional” is simply a rhetorical trick to minimize the importance of the issue.
Preserving or furthering human dignity is part-and-parcel of the civil-rights movement and this issue is a civil-rights/human-rights issue. And, yes, preserving or promoting human dignity is a sound basis for enacting public policy.
Rosa parks wasn’t just being “emotional” when she demanded a seat at the front of the bus, she was demanding to be treated with dignity and respect. And, yes, this issue here is exactly the same, its just wearing a different “dress.”
“Normalization” is also an important part of the civil-rights/human rights movement and furthers important policy goals. When I was just getting out of school, almost none of the major Dallas law firms had any female partners. They got the shit sued out of them under Title VII and now its “normal” to see female partners. Now, I’d say, Title VII plays less of a role in gender equality than it used to just because it is now more normal to see women in positions of power in the workplace.
The fact that Sarah Palin got to run for VP and the fact that we have a Black President and a Female Secretary of State is due to the normalization of women and people of color in positions of power due to both legislation like the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act and cultural normalization. Things like the bridge of the first “Star Trek” and, today, shows like “Modern Family” help further the goal of normalization.
If you think homosexuality is abhorrent and that society should press gays to stay in the closet, you should oppose gay marriage. Because its a full-frontal assault on these notions and, if allowed, homosexuality will be normalized eventually.