Gay Marriage Down in Flames!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]forlife wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
They voted ignorantly and out of of anger.

But with this people know exactly what they are voting for or against.

I disagree. I can’t tell you how many discussions I’ve had with people that are outright ignorant when it comes to understanding gay issues. Even my own family had to be educated when I first came out. There is a lot of misinformation, and unless you are gay yourself it can be easy to stereotype people you don’t understand.

That said, I’ve noticed that as more people come out, family members, friends, coworkers, the stereotypes tend to disappear on their own accord. Once you actually know and care about people that are gay, it makes a world of difference and you tend to be a lot more educated on the facts.
[/quote]

That is what I said, you have to care for people, but caring for them doesn’t mean changing the definitions of your own morality, or groups morality to appease them.

You can care for the person if you do not agree with the act.

That being said the definition of marriage is not just a christian one, it one of sound family values.

And whether you want to argue it is environmental or genetic, it is a disorder, it is not a norm of human behavior. Like alcoholism or autism.

The only reason it seems more prevalent is because for some reason it has become a cool thing, because of the liberal intereference in our education system, to be gay. But in reality it isn’t. It is a disease just like many other.

Your way of life is not right, is not naturally or statistically normal. So stop trying to make everyone think it is.

It is fine to expect support, love and caring, but don’t try to use guilt or empathy to get people to think they, the majority are the non-normal ones.

162

[quote]Floortom wrote:
dhickey wrote:
makkun wrote:

I find it a bit sad though that this becomes such a big issue in the States.

Makkun

Yep. I just don’t get it. Between this and life beginning at conception, I just don’t see the Republican Party gaining much strength.

Thats what I dont get–not only are these losing issues, they’re PURELY religious ones as well. Why is a politcal party defining itself based on a few religious beliefs?? The GOP has turned itself into a Southern Christian party–disastrous for true conservatives.

BTW, what did Jesus say about gays + abortion? Since both were around at the time, he must have spent a lot of his time lecturing on these two evils right?
[/quote]

I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.

163

[quote]forlife wrote:
rainjack wrote:
They want preferential treatment under the law because of a lifestyle choice.

After all of our discussion, I can’t believe you are still pushing this line. Gays don’t want preferential treatment. We pay the same taxes and want the same state/federal benefits for committing our lives to the person we love.

The will of the people is the will of the people - which is the way it should be.

Funny how you say this, yet are so upset that Obama won the election. If the will of the people is always paramount, shouldn’t you be celebrating Obama’s victory?
[/quote]

Of course. We don’t have coups and violent shifts of power like in quite a few other countries. The fact that we have peaceful elections is a million times better than the alternative.

164

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Floortom wrote:
dhickey wrote:
makkun wrote:

I find it a bit sad though that this becomes such a big issue in the States.

Makkun

Yep. I just don’t get it. Between this and life beginning at conception, I just don’t see the Republican Party gaining much strength.

Thats what I dont get–not only are these losing issues, they’re PURELY religious ones as well. Why is a politcal party defining itself based on a few religious beliefs?? The GOP has turned itself into a Southern Christian party–disastrous for true conservatives.

BTW, what did Jesus say about gays + abortion? Since both were around at the time, he must have spent a lot of his time lecturing on these two evils right?

I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.[/quote]

I asked a simple question–what did Jesus say about homsexuality and abortion? Instead of answering the question with a direct quotation from the Bible, you immaturely lash out at me. Interesting.

165

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Please elaborate on this.

[/quote]

Check out my subsequent posts and let me know if you have any questions.

166

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Please elaborate on this.

Check out my subsequent posts and let me know if you have any questions.[/quote]

Zap,you’re looking a bit red.Too much time on the sunbed?

167

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
[…] Science? Oh stop it…Homosexuality has NEVER been proven to be genetic…AND I think you know that.[/quote]

Oookey…

No one said that [edit, just for clarification: no one talked about genetics] - except probably for that voice in your head.

Makkun

168

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Please elaborate on this.

Check out my subsequent posts and let me know if you have any questions.

Zap,you’re looking a bit red.Too much time on the sunbed?[/quote]

If I lay in the sun I melt.

169

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I’m not ignorant of anything, friend. I think it’s very telling that you’ve demonstrated your inability to carry on a conversation without cursing at, insulting, or both, anyone who disagrees with you. Much like many other blustery conservatives I’ve met.

Well, in one sense you have to be - you peddled the “if conservatives are for limited government, why do they support any legal privileges of marriage at all?”…which is, definitionally, ignorant.

“Limited government” is not the same as “no laws anywhere ever and private citizens can do whatever they want whenever they want”. The public policy of marriage serves a number of social goals that are quite important, and marriage isn’t regulating the “private life” of citizens so much as it is regulating the “public consequences” of human nature.

“Limited government” isn’t the same as “anti-government” - read up.

[/quote]

Read first, respond second. Nowhere did I advance that argument. I agreed with the observation that it is ironic that conservatives claim to be for privacy and anti-government interference except when it comes to things they don’t like, such as gay marriage.

170

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
You can care for the person if you do not agree with the act.[/quote]

Of course, I’ve just noticed that people are a lot more likely to understand homosexuality and support equal rights when people they care about are gay.

Believe it or not, gays can have family values too.

Since when does being in a minority translate to being disordered? I won’t get into another long debate on it here, except to point out that every major medical and mental health organization has done the research and concluded that homosexuality is not a disorder as you claim. It is a natural variation of sexuality, and exists in humans as well as most animal species. You may insist you are right because of your religious beliefs, but that doesn’t change the scientific facts.

171

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.[/quote]

I’ve read the bible from cover to cover several times. I assure you Jesus said nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. Paul talked about it, but Paul also talked about a few other things that modern christians conveniently ignore.

172

[quote]Floortom wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Floortom wrote:
dhickey wrote:
makkun wrote:

I find it a bit sad though that this becomes such a big issue in the States.

Makkun

Yep. I just don’t get it. Between this and life beginning at conception, I just don’t see the Republican Party gaining much strength.

Thats what I dont get–not only are these losing issues, they’re PURELY religious ones as well. Why is a politcal party defining itself based on a few religious beliefs?? The GOP has turned itself into a Southern Christian party–disastrous for true conservatives.

BTW, what did Jesus say about gays + abortion? Since both were around at the time, he must have spent a lot of his time lecturing on these two evils right?

I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.

I asked a simple question–what did Jesus say about homsexuality and abortion? Instead of answering the question with a direct quotation from the Bible, you immaturely lash out at me. Interesting.

[/quote]

Look at the way you framed your question, then re-evaluate whether it is an interesting reaction or not.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery

Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

Is that better, I wanted you to realize that respect is earned not deserved, if you want a respectful answer you also need to show it.

173

Let me tell you something else about the Bible: it’s a story. To believe that the stuff in there happened is pretty silly, if harmless. To base laws that affect millions of people on it is wrong and should not be tolerated.

174

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The fact that we have peaceful elections is a million times better than the alternative. [/quote]

Celebrating the democratic process is very different from celebrating the outcome of that process. The people don’t always get it right, do they?

175

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Mark 7:21
For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery

Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
[/quote]

The first passage does not mention homosexuality. The last three came from Paul, not Jesus. Want to try again?

By the way, since when did a person’s holy book become a valid reason for discriminating against people through government policy? What about separation of church and state?

176

[quote]forlife wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.

I’ve read the bible from cover to cover several times. I assure you Jesus said nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. Paul talked about it, but Paul also talked about a few other things that modern christians conveniently ignore.[/quote]

Mark 7:21 is Jesus talking to the Pharisees,

And Yes there is enough evidence in medical research to support that being homosexual is a disorder, especially if you use a more evolutionary or genetic model of disorder. Not the happy go lucky psychology version.

Animals have parnaoia, neurosis, hallucinations; disorders are not only confined to the human model. Animals rape and murder not for food. Certain animals are polygomists, some monogomists, some asexual.

You show me the research that states it is not a abnormal behavior, that it is not a characteristic that is statistically different from the population. And I will take the time to dig back into behavioral neuroscience books and other journals to show you contrary.

177

[quote]forlife wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The fact that we have peaceful elections is a million times better than the alternative.

Celebrating the democratic process is very different from celebrating the outcome of that process. The people don’t always get it right, do they?[/quote]

No, but we’re not shooting at one another. If “the people” got it wrong, we’ll soon find out. On paper, I think they got it wrong, but I have no way of knowing what the future will bring until it happens. I always have the option of civil disobedience in the event that laws are passed that I find conflict with my religious beliefs.

178

There is a separation of church and state the state is the body that took the biblical definition of marriage.

And sexual immorality is grouping of sexual deviancies including homosexuality.

179

[quote]forlife wrote:
rainjack wrote:
They want preferential treatment under the law because of a lifestyle choice.

After all of our discussion, I can’t believe you are still pushing this line. Gays don’t want preferential treatment. We pay the same taxes and want the same state/federal benefits for committing our lives to the person we love.[/quote]

You have done nothing to prove that it is anything but a lifestyle choice. Not one thing. You have had your ass handed to you time and again on your “science”.

Sorry, but just because you say it is so is not going to sway me. Until you have actual genetic proof that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice - your opinion worthless to me.

[quote]The will of the people is the will of the people - which is the way it should be.

Funny how you say this, yet are so upset that Obama won the election. If the will of the people is always paramount, shouldn’t you be celebrating Obama’s victory?
[/quote]

I didn’t want the new baby jesus to win, but I challenge you to find a post where I am crying foul because he was elected. You are flat fucking lying at this point.

I didn’t vote for the new baby jesus. I didn’t vote for McCain, either. But regardless, I am not a whiny fucking titty baby like the fucking left is when Bush won. Fuck - it’s been 8 years and there are still whiny little fucks like you who still whine about Florida.

180

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Floortom wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Floortom wrote:
dhickey wrote:
makkun wrote:

I find it a bit sad though that this becomes such a big issue in the States.

Makkun

Yep. I just don’t get it. Between this and life beginning at conception, I just don’t see the Republican Party gaining much strength.

Thats what I dont get–not only are these losing issues, they’re PURELY religious ones as well. Why is a politcal party defining itself based on a few religious beliefs?? The GOP has turned itself into a Southern Christian party–disastrous for true conservatives.

BTW, what did Jesus say about gays + abortion? Since both were around at the time, he must have spent a lot of his time lecturing on these two evils right?

I can tell you obviously haven’t ever read a bible, shut up. It does clearly define sexual immorality and Jesus’s views towards them.

Maybe you educate yourself before you open you mouth and spout foolishness.

I asked a simple question–what did Jesus say about homsexuality and abortion? Instead of answering the question with a direct quotation from the Bible, you immaturely lash out at me. Interesting.

Look at the way you framed your question, then re-evaluate whether it is an interesting reaction or not.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery

Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

Is that better, I wanted you to realize that respect is earned not deserved, if you want a respectful answer you also need to show it.
[/quote]

My friend–I dont see any references to homsexuality or abortion in the above passages.