Gay Marriage Down in Flames!

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Here’s one of the opening paragraphs from the Spitzer paper I linked back on page 15:

The proponents of the view that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality argue for the elimination of
any reference to homosexuality in a manual of psychiatric disorders because it is scientifically incorrect,

encourages
an adversary relationship between psychiatry and the homosexual community, and is misused by some people outside of our profession who wish to deny civil rights to homosexuals.

Those who argue that homosexuality is a pathological disturbance in sexual development assert that to remove homosexuality from the nomenclature would be to give official sanction to this form of deviant sexual development,

would be a cowardly act of succumbing to the pressure of a small but vocal band of activist homosexuals who defensively attempt to prove that they are not
sick, and would tend to discourage homosexuals from seeking much-needed treatment.

There you have it, folks. Gay activism influenced the update to the DSM-II.

That paper, once again is here:
http://www.psychiatryonline.com/DSMPDF/DSM-II_Homosexuality_Revision.pdf [/quote]

That’s actually not what he says: he just quotes what some colleagues would allege this - just like it happens here. He doesn’t even make it his point.

From the same source - lets just read the immediately following paragraphs:

'[…]For a mental or psychiatric condition to be considered a psychiatric disorder, it must either regularly cause subjective distress, or regularly be associated with some generalized impairment in social effectiveness or functioning.

With the exception of homosexuality (and perhaps some of the other sexual deviations when in mild form, such as voyeurism), all of the other mental disorders in DSM-11 fulfill either of these two criteria.

(While one may argue that the personality disorders are an exception, on reflection it is clear that it is inappropriate to make a diagnosis of a personality disorder merely because of the presence of certain typical personality traits which cause no subjective distress or impairment in social functioning.

Clearly homosexuality, per se, does not meet the requirements for a psychiatric disorder since, as noted above, many homosexuals are quite satisfied with their sexual orientation and demonstrate no generalized impairment in social effectiveness or functioning.[…]’

So, even Spitzer, even in 1972, does not agree with your and others’ assertions that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Thanks - you just delivered your own agenda an impressive blow (pun intended). But lets move on:

'[…]The only way that homosexuality could therefore be considered a psychiatric disorder would be the criteria of failure to function heterosexually, which is considered optimal in our society and by many members of our profession.

However, if failure to function optimally in some important area of life as judged by either society or the profession is sufficient to indicate the presence of a psychiatric disorder, then we will have to add to our nomenclature the following conditions:

celibacy (failure to function optimally sexually), revolutionary behavior (irrational defiance of social norms), religious fanaticism (dogmatic and rigid adherence to religious doctrine), racism (irrational hatred of certain groups), vegetarianism (unnatural avoidance of carnivorous behavior), and male chauvinism (irrational belief in the inferiority of women).[…]’

I especially liked the comment about celibacy - a stalwart of conservative sex ‘education’ - defined as a suboptimal condition. :slight_smile:

'[…]What will be the effect of carrying out such a proposal? No doubt, homosexual activist groups will claim that psychiatry has at last recognized that homosexuality is as “normal” as heterosexuality. They will be wrong.

In removing homosexuality per se from the nomenclature we are only recognizing that by itself homosexuality does not meet the criteria for being considered a psychiatric disorder. We will in no way be aligning ourselves with any particular viewpoint regarding the etiology or desirability of homosexual behavior.[…]’

And again - a clear indication that the decision was driven by the science, not the ominous so-called gay agenda. Thanks - I couldn’t have argued it better.

'[…]Furthermore, we will be removing one of the justifications for the denial of civil rights to individuals whose only crime is that their sexual orientation is to members of the same sex.

In the past, homosexuals have been denied civil rights in many areas of life on the ground that because they suffer from a ‘mental illness’ the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate their competence, reliability or mental stability.[…]’

Beautiful. He even hints on discrimination and denial of civil rights. Oh, not to omit it - he further defines his therapeutic approach of this Sexual Orientation Disturbance not as a therapy for homosexuality, but as an attempt to heal people of the conflicts they may have with homosexuality (which he goes out of his way to describe not as a mental illness). I’m starting to like that man - obviously in a purely platonic way.

‘[…]This revision in the nomenclature provides the possibility of finding a homosexual to be free of psychiatric disorder, and provides a means to diagnose a mental disorder whose central feature is conflict about homosexual behavior.[…]’

Well, we certainly see a lot of that around here…

In short - thanks for posting this PRCalDude. Unfortunately, none of it supports any of your points. It’s clarified Spitzer’s position brilliantly and explains very clearly what led to the reclassification into DSM III - lack of fulfillment of criteria for a mental illness, not the evil gay lobby.

Makkun

[quote]pookie wrote:
Is the watermelon fucked, or inserted?
[/quote]

I’ll never tell!

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
But the point is, black people are black because of genetics, it has not been proven that homosexuals are that way because of genes, therefore it is in fact a choice.
[/quote]

There is nothing whatsoever genetic about black people marrying white people. There used to be laws prohibiting them from doing so. That choice was denied them, but it is now allowed on the basis of equal rights.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
In your opinion anything that presents itself as a fact or statistic regardless of how accurate will be looked as a mere stereotype.[/quote]

In my opinion, actual facts and statistics are reliably reported by the medical and mental health organizations. Your constant reliance on religious beliefs and personal dislike of gays won’t win you much in the facts department.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
No I mean the thousands of others who have left the gay lifestyle and married women…But good try.[/quote]

Leaving the “gay lifestyle” and marrying women doesn’t make you find men any less attractive. You’ve tried, I know…but might as well accept the truth and move forward with your life.

Oh, yes, I must not have ever read that part, right?

Clearly, many homosexuals do “demonstrate generalized impairment in social effectiveness or functioning.” What do you call widespread promiscuity, sucidality, drug use, anxiety and depression?

At the time, the data may have supported the idea that there was no “generalized impairment” as it may not have been studied very well. The data today says otherwise. Of course, it all gets blamed on straights and their discrimination.

How much of this “discrimination” is them projecting their own guilt and and anxiety for their actions onto us? How much of it is worry over HIV or depression from seeing their gay friends die from it? The medical community, you, and forlife seem incurious for answers to those questions.

[quote]clip11 wrote:
Every time someone says something against gays or their program they are censored or ridicled. Like the actor who called someone a fag and was fired and had to apologize…over calling someone a fag???

I think his name was Isaiah Washington[/quote]

He should certainly have apologized. But firing him, I’ll admit, was OTT.

[quote]clip11 wrote:
Read this article to see what I mean about poltical correctness and homosexuality:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=11612
[/quote]

Yeah, that’s not a biased source. I’ll take my chances with the scientists, thanks.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Marriage is between a man and a woman IMO. However I think we either need to end govt regulation of marriage as it’s a religeous institute. Or have civil unions for the same rights minus tax breaks.

Even if you don’t like homosexuals you don’t need ot cause them unnecesary pain if their partner dies or is in the hospital, etc.[/quote]

Which is all that matters.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
That’s funny, but as you know heterosexual men cannot have sex with other men.[/quote]

Check your local prison and get back to me.

[quote]clip11 wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
forlife wrote:
rainjack wrote:
If the Cali Supreme court once again ignores the wishes of the people, I am afraid the gay riots will be a mere gate rush to a Cher concert compared to the rioting that will transpire.

So you castigate gays for rioting in favor of equal rights, then in the same post promote rioting by anti-gays if Proposition 8 is deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?

When will you begin targeting blacks and hispanics for their overwhelming support for Prop 8 instead of the Mormon church, which is white?

The Big Gay Hissy Fit of 2008 needs to end.

I second that!

[/quote]

What bothers them the most (the Left and the homos) is that it was black people who put the Prop over the top. Black people voted 70 to 30 in favor of getting rid of gay marriage. And here they’re so used to thinking of black people as their special pets…

Hillary found out otherwise wrt that.

[quote]forlife wrote:

Oh really? Tell that to my two children. I happen to think that it is in their best interest if my partner and I were legally married, with the associated stability, responsibilities, and privileges of marriage.[/quote]

The exception isn’t the basis for the rule. Homosexuals don’t engage in natural relationships that produce children - nor do we have a social need to “tame” their reproductive urges toward the good of children, which marriage does.

No, it doesn’t, and we have covered this a dozen times. That you can’t be relied on to acknowledge arguments that hurt your position is not proof they don’t exist.

This has been explained over and over, and you, of course, know it - even childless heterosexual couples serve the purpose of marriage by disincentivizing males from going and fathering children with other women.

Here is the thing - you have no ability to get better at this. You stick to a brainless stock script and your way of addressing arguments that cut against you is to pretend they don’t exist.

There are others here making far better arguments for your cause than you, and they don’t have a direct stake in the outcome.

Bench yourself, and learn some new material.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

Would you be for going through each individual right afforded by marriage and allowing certain ones to be given to homosexual marriages (or civil unions)? Such as medical decisions, the right to sue if one partner is unlawfully killed, etc. etc ?[/quote]

You’d be interested to know that in 2004, the state where I resided had an amendment to ban gay marriage and related issues. I voted against it, because I thought it went too far - it prohibited too much beyond marriage.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
forlife wrote:
rainjack wrote:
They want preferential treatment under the law because of a lifestyle choice.

After all of our discussion, I can’t believe you are still pushing this line. Gays don’t want preferential treatment. We pay the same taxes and want the same state/federal benefits for committing our lives to the person we love.

You have done nothing to prove that it is anything but a lifestyle choice. Not one thing. You have had your ass handed to you time and again on your “science”.

Sorry, but just because you say it is so is not going to sway me. Until you have actual genetic proof that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice - your opinion worthless to me.

The will of the people is the will of the people - which is the way it should be.

Funny how you say this, yet are so upset that Obama won the election. If the will of the people is always paramount, shouldn’t you be celebrating Obama’s victory?

I didn’t want the new baby jesus to win, but I challenge you to find a post where I am crying foul because he was elected. You are flat fucking lying at this point.

I didn’t vote for the new baby jesus. I didn’t vote for McCain, either. But regardless, I am not a whiny fucking titty baby like the fucking left is when Bush won. Fuck - it’s been 8 years and there are still whiny little fucks like you who still whine about Florida.
[/quote]

Who the hell would chose to be gay? Thats the stupidest fucking thing ive ever heard. Some day some asshole just wakes up and says to himself "Gee, i dont get beat up, and discriminated against often enough.

Hmm, I’m not mistreated enough either. You know what, imma be a fag. THat sounds good, then Ill have that discrimination my heart so deeply desires." Seriously thats stupid.
FYI i voted against gay marriage, so fuck you fuckers hahahahahahahahahahha.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

This has been explained over and over, and you, of course, know it - even childless heterosexual couples serve the purpose of marriage by disincentivizing males from going and fathering children with other women.
[/quote]

So allowing same sex marriages would presumably have the same effect, in decreasing infidelity within the gay community?

Sounds like a good reason to encourage it, then, especially for you “poisioning the well” CTs out there.