Gay Agenda?

[Lorisco]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
There is no irrefutable proof that suggests any of this is true…LIAR.

I’ve provided evidence from peer-reviewed scientific studies. Feel free to provide logic on why you don’t think these scientific conclusions are valid, then again it’s so much easier to just call people names right?[/quote]

Making gay marriage legal in all States will give them a chance to prove themselves. Then we can see if they have more or less stable relationships when they are allowed to marry like everyone else.

I personally think this will prove that they are not stable, but it can’t be a good scientific comparison until it’s a level playing field.

[Bigd1970]

GAM_BIT,

Yes, I have read the story of Soddom and Gomorrah. The cities were destroyed for their lifestyles, which included sexual perversions, which is relevant to this thread.

Forlife,

If you don’t like people making light of your lifestyle, don’t belittle those of us who do believe God exists, and do believe the Bible to be a Book of Scripture. Just as you propose that I may be wrong in my beliefs, You may be wrong in yours.

Because you have chosen to turn away from religion and use the excuse that there is no God, therfore religion cannot possibly be true and therefore I don’t have to feel guilty for my choices, because after all there is no God, therefore I can believe the way I want.

I have tried not to belittle you, and hopefully you have not felt that I have. I am asking questions and presenting serious concerns that I have pertaining to this topic. You have presented arguements, none of which has changed my mind on my stance.

I’m sure none of mine have changed yours, but please do not belittle my religious beliefs by calling them fairy tales.

You cannot tell me that what I said will not happen. Because it is happening in Canada, where churches are being sued because they have refused to perform gay marraiges, and you know that it will happen here in the U.S. thus ending the freedom of religion.

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
It’s NOT a stereotype if it’s true.[/quote]

It’s a stereotype if you are generalizing to the entire group, rather than acknowledging individual differences like myself and my friends.

Your arguments don’t apply to me and many other gays, so why do you insist they do? It takes a lot of nerve to tell me that my partner is cheating on me and my relationship is doomed, because your stereotypes say that must be the case.

You accuse me of stereotyping…which I’m not and then you go right ahead and stereotype me.

Actually I was responding to your posts on the biblical references I provided, which implied that you consider yourself a Christian. Is that not the case?

Don’t get me wrong I understand how religious types think that what you do is sick…But I’m not all that religious and I think it’s sick as well. So…there you go.

I agree that people can be anti-gay without being religious. The same is true for anti-blacks and for anti-women. You just tend to find more of them in religious circles, who use the Bible as a stick to beat people that are different from themselves.

Well you tell those 10 or 20 couples that I think they should move to Canada and get married.

I’ll stay here, thanks. Last I checked, I pay the same taxes you do.

Poor kids…seriously…

Children raised by gay parents are as well off as children raised by straight parents. See the scientific research posted several times in this thread.

…and concluded that about 67% of all HIV positive cases in the US come from Gay men.

If you really cared about the health of gay men, why wouldn’t you encourage them to get married, which has been shown to reduce the incidence of STDs?

Post some supporting proof. Is that why Rome fell?

According to this reference, Rome fell for a number of reasons, Christianity listed among them. Down with Christianity, since it must mean the end of civilization as we know it!

What Factors Caused the Fall of the Roman Empire?

How long have you been a frustrated gay man looking for approval from perfect strangers over the Internet.

In all sincerity, I wear disapproval from a person like you as a badge of honor

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Granted I may have missed your response but I thought Thunderbodt had a great post on this thread that you never responded to forklie.
[/quote]

I responded in detail, and am waiting for him to address my points.

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Now I know you’ll say that if all these homosexuals were married that not a single one of them would be a “disease spreader”…Buuuuuuut…I’m not buying it and no one else who has a half a brain is either.
[/quote]

Marriage isn’t 100% guarantee against promiscuity and STDs, for heterosexuals or for homosexuals. It does decrease the likelihood though.

[forlife]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Making gay marriage legal in all States will give them a chance to prove themselves. Then we can see if they have more or less stable relationships when they are allowed to marry like everyone else.

I personally think this will prove that they are not stable, but it can’t be a good scientific comparison until it’s a level playing field.
[/quote]

I agree. The research based on countries where gay marriage has been around longer does support the benefits of gay marriage. It will be interesting to see how that carries over to the U.S.

[forlife]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
Because you have chosen to turn away from religion and use the excuse that there is no God, therfore religion cannot possibly be true and therefore I don’t have to feel guilty for my choices, because after all there is no God, therefore I can believe the way I want.

I have tried not to belittle you[/quote]

You just did in the previous paragraph. How about the possibility that I sincerely investigated my religious beliefs? After decades of deep commitment, I concluded that my religious beliefs were not grounded in objective reality.

I think spiritual convictions are emotional, and that people are making it up (not necessarily consciously) because they want it to be true. It makes us feel better to believe there is a beneficent, all powerful being looking after our welfare.

How else would you explain the strong convictions people have for their brand of truth, which logically contradicts the equally strong convictions of others with a different brand of truth? Obviously, not everyone can be right so depth of conviction is not a reliable standard for truth.

You have presented arguements, none of which has changed my mind on my stance.

That is why religious convictions can be dangerous. If you are 100% convinced that God has told you it is wrong to be gay, how could all the objective scientific evidence in the world make any difference?

You cannot tell me that what I said will not happen. Because it is happening in Canada, where churches are being sued because they have refused to perform gay marraiges, and you know that it will happen here in the U.S. thus ending the freedom of religion.

Again, references?

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
So you go seeking honor on the Internet?
[/quote]

No, I just take comments from people like you with a pretty large grain of salt

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Silly gay guy… marriage is for hetero’s.[/quote]

You say marriage is for heteros and deny it to gays, when you know that marriage would decrease the incidence of STDs which you are so fond of citing?

Your true colors are showing again…I don’t think you care about STDs in the gay community at all. It’s more about protecting your idea of marriage, no matter the cost to others.

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Now I know you’ll say that if all these homosexuals were married that not a single one of them would be a “disease spreader”…Buuuuuuut…I’m not buying it and no one else who has a half a brain is either.
[/quote]

Are you even reading my posts? Like I just said, marriage isn’t a 100% guarantee against STDs for heterosexuals or homosexuals, it just decreases the likelihood.

Now excuse me while I watch the rest of Hellboy with my partner and son Have a good time doing…whatever you do on a Friday night.

[Gambit_Lost]

[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
GAM_BIT,

Yes, I have read the story of Soddom and Gomorrah. The cities were destroyed for their lifestyles, which included sexual perversions, which is relevant to this thread.
[/quote]

Have you reflected on the story? Serious question.

Why do you think Lot offered his daughters? Why do you think his daughters got him drunk and slept with him? Answering these questions helps to understand what’s going on in this story, ignoring their answers is a failure to truly look at scripture.

Another question, is a monogamous relationship a sexual perversion?

Myself, I always come back to Matthew 7 when I find myself asking questions such as the most basic one in this thread. And when I hear preachers, or those who claim to be religious, preaching hate, I think specifically of these lines:

[quote]
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [/quote]

When a man preaches hate, I know him to be a false prophet.

[Bigd1970]

Forlife,

You can find references if you google “Court Cases, refusing to perform gay marriages”

Gambit_lost,

Are you preaching to me? It sure sounds as if you are preaching to me. I am not preaching hate. I asked a few questions. I don’t hate people, I don’t like what they do sometimes, but I don’t hate people. I don’t have to like what people do. I don’t have to condone what people do, and I definitely don’t have to allow others to teach my children something that is clearly against my beliefs.

Don’t confuse my opposition to gay marriage to be hatred towards anyone. My opposition to gay marriage is because it is morally wrong. Now, you can say tat my moral values are different from yours, that is fine. But just as Forlife is wanting his personal beliefs to be excepted by others, I have the right to express my personal beliefs and have them at least recognized by others.

The problem here is a clashing of ideals, which makes our country so great. We can agree to disagree, and move on. In other countries of the world, if you don’t agree, you are simply put to death. Here we can have this long drawn out conversation expressing our views, some peacefully, and some a little more hateful, but we get to express our views. The problem arises however, when ones persons views trample on the rights of another. Then someone must be willing to give up their right to appease the right of another. Otherwise, we have a confrontation. In this case, we are waiting on the outcome. If Gay Marriage is upheld in the State of California, am I going to go out and riot in the streets, beat up gays and loot? The answer is No. I will do what has been done for the past two hundred or so years, and obey the law of the land. I will be just a little more diligent in teaching my children what is right and what is wrong. I will be an active parent in my children’s lives. I will attempt to clear up any confusion in their minds. I will tell them the difference between hateing a person, and disliking what they do.

However, If I just sit back and allow this thing to happen, then I am not very diligent to my religious beliefs. Just as forlife said, He has his Depth of Conviction, as evidenced by the lengths he has gone to in an attempt to get everyone to believe his side is right. I have my depths of conviction, which should allow me the same privilege. Now, I also have a job, which does not allow me to invest the same amount of time to research and post arguments. But If I were to just sit back and go along with what is happening, then I would not be being true to my depth of conviction.

The bottom line is this, one side or the other will have to give up a right in order to appease the rights of another. I assume, which is a dangerous thing in and of itself, It will be the side, which opposes Gay Marriage that will have to give up our rights to Religious Freedoms, under the guise of Human Rights violations. Whenever the rights of one conflict with the rights of another, someone has to be willing to give up their right in order to appease the rights of another, which side should give up that right?

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
That’s funny, because just about everything that you’ve written is either a twist of the truth or an outright lie. You have no credibility…ZIP.[/quote]

I’ve provided scientific references for the claims I have made. My conclusions are backed up by every major medical and mental health organization in the world.

In contrast, you deliberately twist and misrepresent studies like the Dutch study, and when you are called on it you ignore it.

You are a classic troll, but it’s ok. I’ve still enjoyed playing with you since letting you out of your cage

[forlife]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Homosexual men have demonstrated that they have no desire to be monogamous.[/quote]

There you go stereotyping and overgeneralizing again. I’m monogamous and many of my friends are monogamous, so your statements are off base.

Oh, and as long as we’re on the subject, what about all the HIV that homosexual men have spread?

You’re still dodging the point. If you’re worried about gays spreading disease, listen to the science, which shows clearly that gay marriage reduces the spread of disease.