I was just curious what kind of gains any of you experiance/have experianced when training while off? I’m 6’2 and about 220-210 depending on my bf. Anyway I’m hoping to get up to 230-240 and don’t mind being a little fat. Been training westside and will continue, current bodyfat is about 10-12%.
I can’t gain while off. I trained for about 13 years naturally before taking the juice, so I was sure I had maxed my genetic potential out.
Even when off AAS, my endogenous t levels are abnormally high due to me being in my early 20’s. As a result, I’m able to retain virtually every lb. of muscle I gain from my cycle and a lot of times if my diet is dialed in correctly, I’ll gain about 2-3lbs. LBM during the 10 weeks that I come off. I know it’s not much, but every little bit helps:)
MK
Does “Off” only refer to AAS? While the HPTA is recovering there are other options-given knowlege, funds, and availability 
Just a question out of curiousity for the genetically maxed out guys here who can’t gain while off.
What happens when you try and eat excessively? Does it all go on as fat? Surely you must be able to gain weight. Is it because you don’t want to get too far away from your current body fat levels?
Creed aside from gh, slin, or igf-1 what are you talking about?
I meant to say pitt. Sorry.
I tend to stay away from the ‘other’ things, as steroids tend to be much safer, and my goals are achieving a classic physique, not a GH/ Insulin one.
[quote]creed wrote:
Just a question out of curiousity for the genetically maxed out guys here who can’t gain while off.
What happens when you try and eat excessively? Does it all go on as fat? Surely you must be able to gain weight. Is it because you don’t want to get too far away from your current body fat levels?[/quote]
Yes, I would just gain fat, and water, and probably loose some muscle as well.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
I tend to stay away from the ‘other’ things, as steroids tend to be much safer, and my goals are achieving a classic physique, not a GH/ Insulin one.[/quote]
I 100% agree with you on that…I try to embody the look of the typical 70’s pro bber. The biggest I ever want to step on stage is 240 at 4%…I never have resorted to gh/insulin/igf/etc. but
I have some friends who take 2x the amount of AAS as I do and resort to gh/insulin/igf like you said, p22, and IMO are just way too freaky looking.
MK
I was referring to those-as well as Cytadrin, PG2’s, ridiculously high sup levels, anything that will shift the balance away from catabolism. I personally will not touch certain things (like IGF)-but there are options available.
What really needs to be asked is why? What is the reason for what you do. If all you want is to look better naked-then many things would not necessarily be appropriate. But the more you research the “exotics”, the better you understand how to better use the “basics”.
Understanding is Power
I make gains while off, but they come slowly, and with an immense effort, mostly from sticking with a massive protien and fat diet and keeping carbs low. It has been taking me 10 months at least between cycles the last two years to match the same gains I make in two months while juicing. And I suspect that I am going to reach a point soon where I will no longer make gains without being on. If that happens, I’ll just try to keep what I gain.
I did just start using Alpha Male though, and I started getting really good pumps again and making some progress, similar to my early twenties. So maybe I’ll still improve naturally for a while.
[quote]pitt wrote:
I was referring to those-as well as Cytadrin, PG2’s, ridiculously high sup levels, anything that will shift the balance away from catabolism. I personally will not touch certain things (like IGF)-but there are options available.
What really needs to be asked is why? What is the reason for what you do. If all you want is to look better naked-then many things would not necessarily be appropriate. But the more you research the “exotics”, the better you understand how to better use the “basics”.
Understanding is Power[/quote]
I just work out because I have a few goals I want to achieve in the next few yrs. Whether I achieve them or not, eventually I will walk away from bodybuilding and try somthing else. For me it is just the goal of achieving a certain level of development - a picture in my mind. It is all for myself, it is my hobby, enough said.
Off for me is 250 mg a week of test ent. I’m nearly 50 and had reached my full genetic potential years before I started juicing. I’m 6’5" with that tall guy narrow shoulder frame. Steroids have allowed me to develop the physique of a shorter man on a tall frame. The mass required to develop a v-tapered form is impossible without steroids. Like P22 says, I only actively gain for six or seven weeks, the last four weeks of a cycle I actually get a little weaker and a bit sluggish with no gains.
At my age off time is not very forgiving. It’s critical to maintain diet and training, just to not lose too much. The only defense for me is very high protein, 2+ grams per pound a day, plenty of good fat, creatine and no simple carbs.
At 261 lbs and a real 12% BF I can honestly say that for me I have no regrets, I only wish I had started a lot sooner. Of all the personal accomplishments in my life, none is more rewarding or more difficult than building physique I can be proud of. Keeping it is just as important. It seems that if I were ever to quit completely, I would lose too much.
Nice thread going here. Thanks for that contribution Pap. BTW I’m suprised to hear you say that you will be able to just walk away from bodybuilding once you reach a certain level.
Question for you Pap, or anbody else who’s been in that game as long. Do you know anybody older than you say in their 60’s-70’s who are still on hrt/lifting? Do they look exceptionally good for their age? Do you know other guys your age doing this?
No I wouldn’t walk away from bodybuilding, I meant HRT.
The older men I know that juice are exceptionally fit. Not so with just HRT.