Fun With Religion

Off Topic
42

[quote]RockClimberjoe wrote:

P: So therefore the most you can say, for certain, is that you have not encountered a SCRZRG and that you DO NOT KNOW if it exists or not.

Notice that the last statement is the definition of Agnosticism.

Just replace SCRZRG with “God” or “gods”, and “2 eyes, 20 legs and 16 stomachs” with whatever quality or qualities you feel God or gods should possess. The argument remains the same.
[/quote]

that can be easily turned on you:

give me concrete proof that SCRZRG or god exist. the burden of proof is on you…

43


WOULD GOD LET THIS HAPPEN!!!?

44

Some of you guys really do not understand what atheism is. I had thought atheism was pretty simple to figure out. It just means the non-belief in a god or deity.

No, there are no aleprechaunians because there are no leprechaunians. If most of the world believed in leprechauns, I’ll bet there would be aleprechaunians too.

Also, since atheism is just the disbelief in any deities, there are no moral or ethical rules or regulations. Atheism doesn’t mean you hate religion, just that you have no need for it.

If you want to attack an atheistic belief system, you will have to be more specific in your attacks. For example, Humanism, Rationalism, Secularism, Realism, Satanism are all atheistic belief systems with moral and ethical codes.

No, you cannot prove that God does not exist, but as joe_r pointed out, if you posit that something exists, the onus is on you to prove it, not on others to disprove it. And from what I have seen, read, heard and experienced, there is very little evidence that any deity exists.

Hopefully someday, the Judeo-Christian god will experience the same death that the Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian and multitude of other gods experienced. I just hope (pray?) that no other gods take its place.

MentalMuscle

45

[quote]RETARD wrote:
WOULD GOD LET THIS HAPPEN!!!?[/quote]

You have a point, those velcro shoes are tacky.

46

[quote]Stevemax wrote:
atheism belivers are atheist because they hate religion[/quote]

In my experience, most atheists don’t really hate religion so much as they hate the religious. And if the religious would shut up and stop trying to convert them, chances are the atheists would be just fine with that. But it’s a problematic issue, the idea of keeping your religion to yourself.

Imagine that you followed the one true religion, and everyone who didn’t follow it was going to be unhappy. Wouldn’t it be nice to bring that one true religion to all the unhappy people and make them happy? Of course it would. And that’s where the religious are sitting, trying to make everyone happy.

Now imagine that someone has lied to you, and the one true religion you follow is actually a complete load of crap that will make YOU unhappy. Wouldn’t you like someone to tell you that, so you can drop it like a hot rock and get on with your life? Of course you would. And that’s where the atheists are sitting, trying to rescue people from a load of crap.

It would be nice if we could figure out who was right, but in the end it always comes down to a question of faith.

Sort of like quantum mechanics. Every exchange of energy requires a particle, but sometimes that particle will appear out of nowhere to effect the energy exchange and then disappear afterward. Why? Because energy was exchanged, but there was no particle there before or after the exchange. So there must have been one that came out of nowhere and then disappeared. You simply have to have faith that this is what really happens, because otherwise energy could be exchanged without a particle, and then… well, there would just be complete chaos. We can’t have that.

Sounds suspiciously like how people explain that there must be a God.

47

[quote]RockClimberjoe wrote:
The interesting thing about atheism is that, logically, you cannot defend this belief.[/quote]

Actually, you just can’t prove this belief. You can certainly defend it. You can defend whatever you like, even if it’s wrong.

The strange thing is, it’s reasonably easy to prove that there is a God, if you stop attaching human qualities to God. If you just track the energy profile of the universe back to the beginning of time, you come to the precise opposite of the heat-death of the universe – which we might call the cold-birth of the universe.

Unfortunately, nothing else could possibly have happened. The law of inertia forbids it. There must have been external interference. So if you just hang the label “God” off whatever external interference there was, you’ve proven the existence of God.

Now, proving that this external interference is omnipotent and loves you and wants you to be happy, on the other hand… that’s a little more difficult. So I leave it as an exercise for the reader. :wink:

Where the atheists have gained ground over recent years is in denying that God has specific qualities. What they have identified is a failure on the part of religion to maintain consistency with the image of God; face it, some of the claims religions have made about God are patently absurd. And if a religion is too attached to the doctrine of “we are never wrong” to admit the absurdity of something people said thousands of years ago, that religion is clearly delusional. It’s time we started admitting that maybe (just maybe) God isn’t exactly what we would like Him to be.

48

That is what religion is all about…faith. No you can’t prove it and therefore you have faith that it is as you believe. I still struggle with what people believe is the cause of the universe and especially earth and man and everything on earth. All I have to do is wake up and see the sunrise, watch the beauty of animals in nature, learn about the intricacies of how the body functions, contemplate exciting literature, listen to music, and there is no way I could believe there is not a god that has created these things. Do you believe these things to be chance?

49

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Mary was immaculately conceived.[/quote]

wasnt jesus immaculately conceived, not mary?

50

The people who believe in “God” have to say is my God, omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnibenevolent (all-forgiving), and a trancending individual (a being beyond time and space). Some might say “Yes my god is all that and a bag of chips”. But who’s god is “right”?! The Christian’s God triad(father,son,and holy ghost), the Jewish God, Allah, The Sun or Earth spirit, Vishnu, Ganesh, Odin, Zeus, Hathor,or countless others? They all meet the certain “Criteria”. We can debate each god and characteristics one by one in a friendly debate, if you choose?

Here in the U.S. it’s Christianity. How fond of Jesus would you be if you were born in Bangledesh, or if you were born in a Navajo tribe? Maybe in Pakistan or parts of rural China, the middle east, Mexico pre-Catholic times? What of the people that were born before Jesus spread his gospel? Egyptian gods,Nordic Gods, Greek gods etc.? Egyptian, Nordic, Greek mythology, was once called RELIGION!!!

I remember watching an episode of Family Guy (witty animated cartoon on Cartoon channel) Peter Griffin looks up in the sky and says “Thank you Jesus”!! Jesus is up in the clouds looking down on earth and says " What, I didn’t do anything". Then Vishnu walks up next to Jesus and says " It was me, I never get the credit".

I have nothing against religion, if it helps you, more power to you!! The only problem I have is when someone says “Hey Sancho, you are going to Hell”!! I reply Nahh!!" I’m going to Valhalla and fight all day long with monsters and go to an all you can eat beef buffet after battle everyday"!!! Now tell me who is “right” The Christians, Me, or none of the above?

Some of the smartest people I ever met when I asked “What happens when you die”? They’re reply “I don’t know”!! How’s that for an answer?!!

Scientist’s will say “Let me experiment, to come to a hypothesis” a Salesman will say " I got the answers all right here".

I don’t know what happens when we die, but I do know that my life will be filled with happiness no matter what!! I’m going to live life to it’s fullest and laugh, have a good time till the end!!
“Sancho”

51

Wasn’t it the ‘religous people’ that had Jesus killed?

Wasn’t it the ‘religous people’ that Jesus spent his time preaching against?

52

RockclimberJoe: Replace SCRZRG with “Sixth Platonic Solid” Doesn’t exist! Okay, I am a smart-ass…

53

[quote]joe_r wrote:
that can be easily turned on you:

give me concrete proof that SCRZRG or god exist. the burden of proof is on you…[/quote]

The proof is on me?? When did I say I was trying to prove the existence of God or gods ?

What I showed was that you cannot prove (proof is the ultimate ‘defense’) or know that God or Gods does/do not exist.

It is a fallacy connect the following:

“I cannot know that A does not exist” (what I showed)

implies

“A must exist” (what you stated I was arguing for. However, I was not arguing this case)

[Also, above, I am using the widely accepted JTB definition in epistemology of what it means to have knowledge of something.]

54

Hey all,

I hestitate to join this since it is so easy to have what you say misconstrued.

I am a professing Christian. So I find it interesting that when Tiffy asked about the attrocities that religious groups have done, that no Christians faced the history of the Crusades. And what has been done to the Native Americans. How many people died because they refused to believe in Christ?

Also in certain parts of the world when missionary groups would come providing food “relief” the nationals/locals/ unsaved people would have to accept Christ and a new name the missionaries could pronounce in order to receive their rations?

Sounds pretty attrocious for such a loving religion.

I find that I side with the attitude of most people with negative opinions of mainstream Christianity (not Christianity itself).

I think one of Jesus’ greatest cautions is against believers and those that profess to be a follower of His way. Jesus says that not everyone who says “master, master” will be saved but only those that do the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The whole sermon on the mount, is to move you the believer from the external to the internal. To move you from the Law to the Spirit. It is here where you can truly come face to face with God’s grace, and be released to be lead in developing the fruits of the Spirit.

As Rainjack said Jesus did blast the religious people, the people that are supposed to be in the know. If knowing the Law was all that was needed there would have been no need for the prophets of the old testament. Jesus would not have blasted the scribes etc.
Jesus also wouldn’t have said that the true worshippers will worship in Spirit and in truth…no mention of the Law.

I don’t know how many people have preached to me without asking me if I even believe in Jesus.

There can be more damage do to a person with a poorly spoken word, than with no words at all, no matter how well intended.

Am I perfect? Absolutely not. Do I think I’m better than you? Nope. Do I think I’m right and your wrong? Don’t care because as for me and my house, I’ve sided with Jesus. And I will respect your decision to not accept Jesus. Will our differences mean we can’t hangout? Nope. Do I make mistakes? Absolutely. Will I continue to make mistakes to the day I die? Yep. Will I learn something? God I hope so. Will I spread the Gospel? When I get asked.

Stevemax: What are the two differences between Christianity and all other world religions?

Nephrom: There is a lot more of the Old testament than Isaiah that jesus’ life had to be written around to conform to.

Peace,
T-Ren

55

[quote]RockClimberjoe wrote:
joe_r wrote:

The proof is on me?? When did I say I was trying to prove the existence of God or gods ?

What I showed was that you cannot prove (proof is the ultimate ‘defense’) or know that God or Gods does/do not exist.

[/quote]

my mistake. i thought you were trying to say god existed because of the difficulties in proving an abscence of god.

my proof that god does not exist is the fact that there is no evidence or proof that he does exist. even though abscence of evidence in not evidence of abscence, just about everything that is attributed to god can be explained by simpler or more natural methods. that is enough for me. eventually everything will be explained.

or, the more likely case, we’ll screw the planet up enough and all die.

56

T-Ren,

I wish more Christians were like you. I’ve had some bad experiences with pushy and judgemental religious people. You seem to have a grasp of what Christianity is supposed to be. Peace to you too T-Ren!
“Sancho”

57

The burden of proof always lays on the person whose claim is the most outlandish. This is similar to Ockham’s razor as was mentioned earlier.

If something has never been measured, recorded, witnessed, photographed, scientifically documented, nor reliably reproduced, and similarly if no theories can be put forward that begin to explain something in any sort of scientific way that is consistent with any known principal, then the burden of proof should be on the person who claims that thing exists, not on those who claim it does not.

“But this book says such and such happened!” does not cut it. An important principal in science is something needs to be reproducable.

So if somebody makes a claim such as, “ESP exists” or “I have an invisible friend.” The burden is on them to explain what organ in the body transmits ESP, what organ receives it, how it travels from the source to the destination (is it a radio wave?! a sound?!), how it complies to the laws of physics (does it give off heat? use up energy?), and please demonstrate it.

58

Well, I would like to add my 2 cents worth. I am not a Christian, but what I have read from all the threads so far has been enlightening. Here’s a thought.
If you claim that Jesus is the son of God, shouldn’t he have not died at the time of crusifiction? Since he is a “half mortal”? Further, how can the Virgin Mary and her son both be empty of any sins, going back to the Immaculate Conception? Shouldn’t it be either of the two.

59

[quote]T-Ren wrote:
Stevemax: What are the two differences between Christianity and all other world religions?

Peace,
T-Ren[/quote]

1 GOD CAME TO MAN through Christ. All other religions are Man tring to reach God.

2 RELATIONSHIP BASED with God through his Spirit. Which why many christians believe they have a relationship not a religion. All other religions have no relationship with God.

The key to JESUS’s teaching is on his sermon on the mount. At this time the people of the day had a 100’s of rules, many ridiculous like you cant spit on soil on the sabbath as it would be classified as working, as this would till the soil when you spat. but you could spit on concrete. The people of the day had very little hope, they were being conquered by the romans, and the pharisee’s were not handling things well.

Any how Jesus gave them hope through a new radical way of thinking, one of the most important points he made was about going the 2nd mile. Back 2000 years ago, the romans could ask any Jew to do any errond they asked as long as it was within 1 mile - but the jews hated it - so when jesus said ‘if anyone asks you to go 1 mile, go with him 2’ this totally blew the thinking of the day, and still does, but this is a message for all believers.
Matt 5 38-48
Matt 5 V41 - key scripture
You see Simon of cyrene carried jesus’s cross the first mile, but jesus did the 2nd mile, the 2nd mile was everything he had including his life
His messaage was simple though - saying We need to live on the 2nd mile.
u see the 2nd mile looks uncongested - back then and even now people do tend to think the same. With this way of thinking spoke by jesus, you tend to stand out - Jesus stood out - the disciples stood out - you travel much faster in life, as you’re not bogged down with the norms way of thinking, but only as long as you are prepared to pay the price. And the price for Jesus and the disciples was death, the early christians was persecution and death, and even today this still happens in certains parts of the world - i.e north korea and china.

the 2nd mile is unexpected. 1st mile is expected. I.e if you go to work you are expected to work. Jesus was saying Look to do the unexpected.

the 2nd mile is unasked for - Jesus was saying give what isnt asked for

the 2nd mile is uncomplicated - 1st mile is contractual, sometimes difficult to understand, is complicated, may have strings attached, jews had laws for everything, oral and written, as we know jesus fulfilled the oral law. but he messed with heads the religious people of day, the pharisee’s about the written law - i.e talking to sinners, healing people on the sabbath, .i.e an eye for an eye is not that simple if the guy who had is vision impaired 50% by another guy, cannot impair someone’sthe other guys vision back exactly 50%.

the 2nd mile is unnanounced, you keep your unasked for works to yourself and god will know your humble heart… if you boast about it and how u did the 2nd mile, u just ended up back on the first mile Matt 6 1

the 2nd mile unreasonable, its not safe and predictable, you have to get out of your comfort zone. This is why most people never attempt the 2nd mile, unless its for their own benefit.

Now you know Jesus was responsible for the phrase 'going the extra mile.

60

[quote]tiffy wrote:

I am in a particularly snarky mood today…why doesn’t everyone share the most ridiculous thing they have ever heard, had done to them, seen done to others etc., regarding “religion.” It can be any religion from mainstream Christians to the annoying Hare Krishnas at the airport.[/quote]

The Crusades.

61

T-Ren wrote:
Stevemax: What are the two differences between Christianity and all other world religions?

Peace,
T-Ren

1 GOD CAME TO MAN through Christ. All other religions are Man tring to reach God.

Guessed this correctly.

2 RELATIONSHIP BASED with God through his Spirit. Which is why many christians believe they have a relationship not a religion. All other religions have no relationship with God.

I did not guess this one. I figured it was forgiveness by faith not acts or sacrifice. Which I guess is really just a modification of the first.

As for the rest of what you say good job. I have never heard the “history” behind most of Jesus’ comments, but have held the same idea on this teaching thank-you.

Peace,
T-Ren