Fuel Cells

Off Topic
1

At this point, hydrogen fuel costs 100 times more than what is considered desirable by the Department Of Energy to sustain a hydrogen economy. Hydrogen fuel cells cost 10 times more than your battery.

Clearly, while the technology is already here, it is not thriving simply because it is not competitive. Consumers refuse to pay for a more expensive car when they can buy a cheaper and efficient car - current hydrogen fuel prices notwithstanding.

Solar power is regularly dismissed offhand by the masses as being too weak.

WHAT IF:

We refine our technology for building solar panels cheaply; start building them en masse; and line them up along side roads. Huge arrays of solar panels will absorb solar energy and transfer it to vehicles traversing the roads.

There is a limitation to how much energy a vehicle can collect when the panels are mounted on it - but if the energy is collected by these huge arrays of solar panels which store the energy in fuel cells and then transfer it to vehicles on the road via electricity (such that a vehicle would complete an electrical cirtuit and charge would flow towards the vehicle powering its motor).

2

[quote]diesel25 wrote:
At this point, hydrogen fuel costs 100 times more than what is considered desirable by the Department Of Energy to sustain a hydrogen economy. Hydrogen fuel cells cost 10 times more than your battery.

Clearly, while the technology is already here, it is not thriving simply because it is not competitive. Consumers refuse to pay for a more expensive car when they can buy a cheaper and efficient car - current hydrogen fuel prices notwithstanding.[/quote]

You’re overstating the current situation when you say “the technology is already here.” Automotive fuel cells necessitate light weight, high power output, and a fuel that is both readily available and easily portable. We can build high power output fuel cells, but at this point they’re still too bulky. There’s been great progress in light weight fuel cells, but so far they’re limited in power output and are being targeted to the likes of cell phones and laptops. By using on-board reformers fuel cells can be powered by methane, propane, and even gasoline and ammonia. However, none of these will achieve wide spread success without significant infrastructure and standardization.

Yes, the technological potential is here, but the technology is not mature enough to break into the automotive world.

[quote]WHAT IF:

We refine our technology for building solar panels cheaply; start building them en masse; and line them up along side roads. Huge arrays of solar panels will absorb solar energy and transfer it to vehicles traversing the roads.

There is a limitation to how much energy a vehicle can collect when the panels are mounted on it - but if the energy is collected by these huge arrays of solar panels which store the energy in fuel cells and then transfer it to vehicles on the road via electricity (such that a vehicle would complete an electrical cirtuit and charge would flow towards the vehicle powering its motor).[/quote]

It’s not so simple to “refine our technology for building solar panels.” Lots of researchers are working on this, but I am not aware of any solutions that are both inexpensive and reasonably effecient.

Further, who’s going to line them up along the sides of the roads? In the US, the government has it’s hands full just building and maintaining our roads. I have a hard time believing private industry would engage in such a massive undertaking. And, of course, how do we take this energy and “transfer it to vehicles traversing the roads”?

Please note that I am not opposed to alternative energy sources. Quite the opposite, actually. Fuel cells should become a viable option in the not-too-distant future and electric hybrid technology (such as in the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, and Honda Civid Hybrid) should allow a car to run on any sort of portable electric power source (fuel cells, gas turbine engines, diesel, etc.) without compromising performance.

I don’t mean to shoot down your idea entirely. I certainly do not have the solution to our energy problems. I just wish to highlight that the problem is more complex than you make it out to be.

3

That’s good critique.

I may have over-simplified the problem. The currently available technology needs to be optimized before it can be profitably used to produce clean vehicles. Issues such as size and weight are clearly issues to be resolved.

The ability to produce hydrogen fuel cells which can power the motor in your car, however, already exists. We can incroporate it into a car, but it remains expensive, and in need of refinement.

Electricity stored in solar cells would flow the same way they would in a circuit in your house. Except the ciruit is incomplete (such as it is after you switch your lights off). If you conceive a vehicle which carries a conductive strip in constant conact with the road, the circuit will be completed and charge will now flow to the car powering it up.

This is clearly not a very feasible idea. But it is an idea, and at least it leads to a clear reason why it is not feasible.

It gets you thinking, an that’s something many don’t seem fond of today.

4

If you haven’t seen it before, this may interest you: http://www.ruf.dk/

Admittedly, while a technical, economic, and political challenge, a roadway power bus has potential advantages. Cars could be powered by ANY electric power source, big or small. Solar panels by the side of the road, solar panels in the middle of the desert, hydro power plants, nuke power plants, etc.

Agreed. Come up with a crazy idea. Figure out how to make it work. Then figure out how to make it practical. Iterate as necessary.

5

I think the technolgy is feasible.

The process, right now, is not efficient and the economics are not there. I think Government has a role thru tax incentives to encourage this technology and jump start the economics.

Once the number make sens this stuff will take off. As long as it doesn’t it never will.