Front Squats for Vertical Jump Training?

This is a slow jump.

The guy also is not lean, leaning up will help him here and not just with the weight loss either. Being leaner will help with his explositivity.

Also, he’s not using “reactive strength”, you see him muscling it up.

The technique not the best, but for 5’9" thats very good, with poor technique and a “slow muscle jump”.

I would say he could almost do one foot BETTER than this with:

  1. Lower body fat
  2. Execute a “reactive jump”
  3. Better technique
  4. Explositivity

I mean really, how slow he goes up it looks weird that he even gets up that high.

[quote]djrobins wrote:
This is a slow jump.

The guy also is not lean, leaning up will help him here and not just with the weight loss either. Being leaner will help with his explositivity.

Also, he’s not using “reactive strength”, you see him muscling it up.

The technique not the best, but for 5’9" thats very good, with poor technique and a “slow muscle jump”.

I would say he could almost do one foot BETTER than this with:

  1. Lower body fat
  2. Execute a “reactive jump”
  3. Better technique
  4. Explositivity

I mean really, how slow he goes up it looks weird that he even gets up that high.
[/quote]

1 foot more? That’s like 48 inches at worst, not sure about that :slight_smile:

he is 5’8.5" and most guys around here with average length arms will get wrist to rim if they vertical jump 40 inches. He’s not far off that as is

I’ve done paused vertical jumps myself, and I only lose 1 inch at the most.
I’d say around 3 inches more is there for the taking.

he’s pretty lean, there are some training videos in his youtube channel and he looks to be about 8-10% bodyfat

I think the arm swing sucks. The crouch is too low. The body lean and head looks robotic. I also think he could be leaner. Also most of us can see it is not a “reflexive” jump, but he’s muscling it up.

He’s probably getting up higher than me though, but I’m of course comparing to what I see on a 40+ VJ.

[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
djrobins wrote:
This is a slow jump.

The guy also is not lean, leaning up will help him here and not just with the weight loss either. Being leaner will help with his explositivity.

Also, he’s not using “reactive strength”, you see him muscling it up.

The technique not the best, but for 5’9" thats very good, with poor technique and a “slow muscle jump”.

I would say he could almost do one foot BETTER than this with:

  1. Lower body fat
  2. Execute a “reactive jump”
  3. Better technique
  4. Explositivity

I mean really, how slow he goes up it looks weird that he even gets up that high.

1 foot more? That’s like 48 inches at worst, not sure about that :slight_smile:

he is 5’8.5" and most guys around here with average length arms will get wrist to rim if they vertical jump 40 inches. He’s not far off that as is

I’ve done paused vertical jumps myself, and I only lose 1 inch at the most.
I’d say around 3 inches more is there for the taking.

he’s pretty lean, there are some training videos in his youtube channel and he looks to be about 8-10% bodyfat[/quote]

I’m gonna disagree there man. I’m 5’9 and at my best I put up a 35" from a standstill and a 41.5" off of three steps. I have average arm length and could dunk 2-hands from a standstill. Was measured by an ex strength coach from the Miami Heat. A true 40" vert is really rare.

He is 5’9.5" in shoes, look where he gets his head. Remeber net height is usally 8.5 feet and he gets his head above it by a fair bit

and his feet do reach his hip height. I’m exactly the same height as him, and my hip/glute height is about 40 inches.

Like I said about 36-38, and that’s with poor jumping form.

I bet he could hit 39 with a deload from his bodybuilding stuff and work on his form, along with specific gains from actually jumping a lot.

I know with a 40 inch vertical jump I am not anywhere near dunking with 2 hands. That would only get me to mid hand on rim. I need a 43 inch VJ to just barely dunk with 2 hands. Accounting for the loss of 3 inches with the ball in my hands

You obviously have long arms for a 5’9" guy Whiteflash. Even SquatDr just dunked his first time when he hit a 36 inch VJ off a lob if I recall correctly

Also a 40 inch VJ is rare because people are too weak! A 2.4x bodyweight full olympic squat is a minimal requirement.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Tiberius,

What is that picture supposed to prove? You’re maybe 2 feet off the ground from an approach…[/quote]

You think that is two feet?

Maybe a little higher but it certainly doesn’t look like you’re higher than a foot over the net.

I could be wrong though, it’s kinda retarded to estimate based off one snapshot of a picture where it’s tough to tell the angle.

I go about ~35" from the stand, a little less last year when this pic was taken…

Trinsey maybe your net was lower? On a standard Vball net 35 inches wouldn’t get you a foot above the net like that would it? at least I wouldn’t think so.

Besides that I pretty much disagree with 98% of what coolj has said, more or less agree with flash.

Ah a fellow volleyball player, you’re right it could be the angle, though my legs are pretty straight and I am maybe one or two feet away from the net to give perspective so judge from that. If I was jumping 24 inches I don’t think I would be playing D1!

On the original poster, I don’t know why I posted my first response since squats and other weight training has nothing but helped my vert. And to answer your question I’m 6’5" Go big and jump high!

Yeah I have no idea, just more to show how the angle can really screw with the picture…

I don’t agree with the “squats are everything” approach but certainly strength is a part of it.

Kelly Baggett said once that you’ll be happy with your vert when you can:

1.) Squat 2x bw
2.) at under 10% bf
3.) with reactivity to hop back and forth over a knee-high cone or string 20x in 10 seconds.

And I think that’s a good way to look at it, but the methods of getting there may vary.

Personally I have seen results in myself and others from doing plyometrics and weighted jumps of various forms in addition to strength work. I think everything fits together and the effect is synergistic; you can’t just look at one element alone.

If predominantly front squatting is the long way to a bigger vert, how do you feel about front squatting combined with Bulgarian split squats and Romanian deadlifts? Surely those movements combined provide a very complete strengthening stimulus of the leg.

I ask because I like how you can’t screw up form as badly as in the back squat.

Or is back squatting really the ultimate in vert development?

You can certainly get a bigger jump in frontsquats, but it’s much more difficult to frontsquat heavy weights day in and out due to the upper body/back being the weak link in the chain

low bar full squats offer more bang for the buck, you don’t need to do any extra posterior chain work! And it’s much easier and safer to squat big loads.

Jumping + heavy frontsquats = lots of knee stress over time

Something intersting:

NSCA has done emg studies that showed the recruitment of front and a back squat for all the muscles is very similar, people seem to think that front squating doesnt target the pchain mainly because when most front squat they are using a narrow stance very upright(more than needed). It was an interesting study.

Coolcolj was wondering if you had a similar formula for the bulgarian split squat.

nope, from what others have said, results with just BSS only, tend to be dissapointing
Only way to find out is to try it :slight_smile:

I don’t know of anyone who has put on 15-20 inches on their vertical jump like a few people I know of, without squatting

CoolColJ: I’ve been reading alot of your posts and wanted to say thanks for your contribution to the forum. From the little i know about athletic performance, your opinions make total sense. I’m pretty much sold on increasing my oly squat strength to increase my vertical and then once i have a solid base then start a 2-4 week jumping program. Like most people here, my goal is to dunk (stats below) I’m guessing i need around a 38in vert to dunk?

1RM BS (high-bar): 275lbs
1RM DL: 325lbs
Vertical (tested with tired legs): 26"
Height: 5’10"
Standing Reach: 7’6"

Anyway, there are so many different strength programs out there i am so confused. I’ve kept switching around the past 7 months (since when i started REAL lifting). To be brief, i generally train my lower body once per week with high intensity. Every week i try to beat last weeks weight or reps. I do 2 “real” sets of oly squats, 2 sets lunges, 1 set glute/ham, and 2 sets calf. I know its hard to generalize a program, but what have you seen work the best to improve back squat strength…do you know what type of lifting squatDr does? Thanks so much!

38 inch to get wrist to rim, anotehr 3 more for the loss of height with ball in your hands, means you need 41 inch running jump to land a clean dunk. IF you get a lot of extra inches off a run, then it will be easier.

As for what SquatDR does, why don’t you PM him? :slight_smile:
Pretty vague question, because he has been training for over 10 years. But from what I gather, he pretty much adds weight to the bar and tries to squat a PR for 1-2 worksets, and then hits the assistant lifts to bring up weakpoints etc

What your doing looks fine, keep adding weight to bar, when you stall back off the weights and volume to deload and freshen up, repeat.
Eventually your gonna need to add a lot of muscle mass to keep driving up strength and performance. So spend some time piling on some size, then spend some time to peak the size into actual strength gains, then spend some time to use that strength to improve your jump, by actually practising jumps


IMO, once someone has a baseline of skill, and can recruit all the muscles properly in the right order and what not, the quickest way to improve performance from here on it is to increase the size of the power source - the muscles. Increase the wattage potential

nice post by Kelly Baggett backing up my viewpoint -

FWIW Col’s thinking has been researched fairly heavily in sprinting and has found to hold true for the most part.

The thing is if you have what it takes neurologically and structurewise to jump high, hypertrophy will probably be extremely positive because you’re already naturally closer to the peak of any neural gains you’re gonna make. I’ve trained 5 guys from the mid to high 20’s up to 37 inches or better and the common theme is all of them got a lot out of simply getting bigger lowerbody wise.

For each individual body structure there is an “optimal” muscular bodyweight that optimizes their leverages for jumping. Look at the NFL combine. On a fairly consistent basis defensive lineman and outside linebackers consistently jump as high if not higher than all the other positions. Why is that? They combine fairly long levers with a lot of muscle and many of them put on a good 40-50 pounds from the time they come in as college freshman to the time they graduate. Someone with shorter levers might not need that much.

Another key is that hypertrophy has to take place in the right muscle groups. Chris K doesn’t squat much but he does use a variety of strength movements and his guys are assuredly getting larger, more powerful glutes over time. Many high school kids will grow just running sprints on the track. For a lot of folks squatting carried to the extreme can cause postural functions that negate the optimal alignments and muscle balance needed to drive off the toes with power. A large percentage of powerlifters and o-lifters seem to have this “look.” Also it takes extra food intake to feed hypertrophy and a lot of people are fat. If a guy has 30 pounds of extra fat do you make them even fatter just so they can have an extra few pounds of muscle?

Relative strength is really more about body-fat than muscle mass IMO. With regards to muscle mass any sorta training will make muscles bigger to some extent. Even in Pilates class women get bigger muscles to some extent. On the internet guys should be able to gain 250 pounds on their squat and only increase their muscle mass 2 pounds? Bull. In olympic lifting and even gymnastics guys train big and eat big and gain weight to gain strength. Pure newbie neurological gains don’t come long. Why do you think Rippetoe has folks drinking a gallon of milk a day on his program? With his basic program complete newbies oughta be able to make pure neural gains for ages. Probly because he got tired of dudes not eating enough to make gains. Glenn Pendlay trains a lot of top national O-lifters and from what I recall his advice wrt bodyweight and strength is very similar to Ripp’s. Guys go up in bodyweight then come down to whatever weight class they can make it at the top of. The “relative” part of relative strength has more to do with bodyfat levels and body composition over time and less about muscle. Few people stay completely static bodyweight and musclewise and make many changes of any kind on a long term basis. Now, you might find someone that loses 20 pounds of fat along with some lower body size and strength but his VJ goes up. Well, in this case the fat loss overshadowed the muscle size loss. But for the most part anyone who increases hypertrophy while staying fairly lean will be rewarded in a good way. The “lean” part and the individually optimized structure is where the “relative” part comes in.

Will lower body lifts help in the absence of any hypertrophy whatsoever? Due to the stimulating effect on the nervous system they probably will to a certain extent, yes, but the gains are likely to be short lived.

Going back to the original question, you may only be able to jump as high as you can drop, but the factor most closely correlated with power absorption (ADA) is maximum eccentric strength. So, as you get eccentrically stronger you automatically get better at that type of activity. Guess what muscular quality most closely correlates to eccentric strength? Cross sectional size.

Thanks for your advice…it is greatly appreciated!

How much weekly gains do people typically see when they are maxing strength? I know the more experience one has the less gains they will see, but i am a beginner/novice (training seriously for ~5 months). Like I said i am in the 3-5 rep range and try to beat either my weight or reps from the previous week. My off-training habits (sleep, etc) are perfect. I’m thinking 10lbs weekly? Thanks!