France Alarmed at Obama's Iranian Capitulation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

And in any event they were definitely an ally of North Korea…and still are. Ironic, one of the richest countries in the world backing one of the most oppressive & poorest. You’d think they’d want to beef up the economy of the North to compete with Capitalist South. No reason the North couldn’t be the next Hong Kong, Shanghai, or even a place like Singapore. Boggles my mind.[/quote]

Actually, all evidence points towards the fact that China supports N.Korea only because it wants to maintain the status-quo in the region, but would like to have S. Korea become ascendant in the peninsula if it didn’t pose a threat to China via strengthening of Korean/U.S. relations.

And I’ll be honest- if N. Korea poofed tomorrow magically then there is no real reason for S.Korea and the U.S. to be buddies.

302

http://www.cfr.org/iran/p51-joint-comprehensive-plan-action-jcpoa-irans-nuclear-program/p36376?cid

Text of the P5+1 Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) on Iran’s Nuclear Program, which provisions the framework of the final agreement.

304

[quote]Bismark wrote:
http://www.cfr.org/iran/p51-joint-comprehensive-plan-action-jcpoa-irans-nuclear-program/p36376?cid

Text of the P5+1 Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) on Iran’s Nuclear Program, which provisions the framework of the final agreement.[/quote]

Meanwhile, here’s American Iranian’s opinions of it:

And then this:

We’re fighting with them in Iraq, against them in Yemen! Can’t keep track without a score card.

305

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

We’re fighting with them in Iraq, against them in Yemen! Can’t keep track without a score card.
[/quote]

As Jon Stewart said, we’ve finally figured out how to wage a proxy war against ourselves.

307

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varq wrote:

As Jon Stewart said…

[/quote]

Oh brother, I’d rather listen to what your dog had to say.
[/quote]

My dog Hypatia could climb trees. It was extremely comical to see this little terrier race up to the top of the olive tree or the big cork oak in my backyard to retrieve tennis balls, then race back down them again as if it were the most natural thing in the world.

She, like all dogs, hated squirrels, and would go absolutely apeshit crazy whenever her doggie radar detected one in her territory. Unlike most dogs, however, she would go hunting them in their territory as well, racing up the trees to harass them whenever possible.

Once, as I was about to leave to meet a young lady one evening, I noticed Hypatia chewing on something under the olive tree. On closer inspection, I saw that it was a dead squirrel. When I returned, I saw that half the squirrel was gone. The next morning, there was no trace of the squirrel whatsoever. She had eaten the entire creature, bones, fur and all.

She was also a very efficient killer of rats and bluejays.

So yes, I’m sure that inasmuch as she was very much a proponent of noisy incursions into places she had no business going, and killing things that posed no real threat to my household, nor indeed to her, you and she would find much to agree on.

308

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varq wrote:

As Jon Stewart said…

[/quote]

Oh brother, I’d rather listen to what your dog had to say.
[/quote]

Sadly a large majority of Americans take the liberal gospel of jon stewart as their daily news briefing.

309

I’m really beginning to like Carly.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/04/02/false-choice-and-flawed-deal/

310

“President Obama and Secretaries Kerry and Clinton are more concerned with their legacy than they are with our national security.”

you could pretty much insert any politician in that statement and it’s true, but it really high lights the problems with our government.

311

Hey Biz, this article pretty much sums up my theory on the rise of ISIS:

How should we combat it? Do we need to invade Iraq again?

http://tablet.washingtonpost.com/top/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/05/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

312

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Yes, they most certainly did but it is irrelevant at this point.

I said China supported Vietnam during the war.

Loppie said I was a dumb Yank and was wrong and must not’ve known about the longstanding antipathy between China and Vietnam.

I said China supported Vietnam during the war.

Loppie admitted China supported Vietnam but said it was reluctantly.

I said China supported Vietnam during the war.
[/quote]

Nice try. However, completely incorrect. Here’s the exchange from three pages back. Read it again.

You referred to China as the “old benefactor”, I objected on that, citing their long-standing enmity and subsequent war. I said “The Chinese were backing the Vietnamese reluctantly” in my first post on the subject and you sidestepped the issue, only to claim later that you we’re in the right and I “admitted” something else.

You can call me anything you want - Loppie, Lopsie, Lopie-baby or whatever you like and froth at the mouth at the perceived insult but that won’t change the fact that you were in the wrong.

You’re welcome.

313

So Loppar, would you say that the title of this thread is an accurate representation of current affairs?

Are you, as a Frenchman, personally alarmed at Obama’s Iranian capitulation?

Or is it merely worthy of a shrug and a “tant pis”?

314

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
So Loppar, would you say that the title of this thread is an accurate representation of current affairs?

Are you, as a Frenchman, personally alarmed at Obama’s Iranian capitulation?

Or is it merely worthy of a shrug and a “tant pis”?

[/quote]

A Frenchman? I would’ve picked him as Croatian.

317

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
So Loppar, would you say that the title of this thread is an accurate representation of current affairs?

Are you, as a Frenchman, personally alarmed at Obama’s Iranian capitulation?

Or is it merely worthy of a shrug and a “tant pis”?

[/quote]

A Frenchman? I would’ve picked him as a Croatian.
[/quote]

Croatian is correct. Ethnic German, but Croatian nevertheless.

Well, the Iran situation is complex. I’ve had the opportunity/luck(?) to live in a lot a places for different periods of time, including Jersey and Teheran so I’m a bit biased on the issue.

Currently I’m very pissed about the US policy in Ukraine, aka “please stop the invas…I mean incursion or we’ll continue to acquiesce with mild verbal complaints”. Middle East is a clusterfuck, and American naivete there is frustrating, regardless of the administration.

Laugh all you want about the French but their foreign policy is consistent. With only a shadow of their “great power” status and a background in colonial brutality, they’ve managed to hold some influence in sub-Saharan Africa meddling constantly in internal affairs of other countries without gaining the opprobrium. That pasty socialist Hollande was practically mobbed by French flag waving Malians. Why? Because they know who to back, and they usually stick to their choice.

When was the last time something like that happened to an US president abroad? Clinton in Albania?

Obama’s foreign policy approach was…bizzare. I think the administration simply got lost in different multi-faceted conflicts, which is inexcusable.

“We are backing the Free Syrian Army. What? These guys aren’t the good guys? Al what? Who are these Hezb something guys? Aren’t they with Iran. Which means that they’re bad. But I don’t like Netanyahu, and he says Hezbollah is worse the Al something sunni militia?” And so on.

Also, being nominally allied with two medieval theocracies that are waging the war against you doesn’t help.

When Jon Stewart can rip your ME foreign policy in two minutes you’ve got a problem.

Iran is actually a natural US ally in the Middle East, which was shown in the current ad hoc alliance in Iraq. Yes, they are a brutal dictatorship that has no qualms about killing their own people. Yes, they are an enemy of Israel. However, they behave just like the USSR did, even the oppressive atmosphere is very similar. However, the guys running are rational and interested in their self preservation. USSR collapsed one December with a whimper. The “Evil Empire” didn’t launch their nukes in one last gambit. They knew the game was up.

Even Assad the mass murder constantly gasses his own people, but does not dare to attack Israel, for all his antisemitic rhetoric. Why? Because he knows he would be dead soon. And he is still alive, something many people would’t bet on three years ago. Which means that he’s got a developed sense of self preservation, like most dictators. Just like the Iranians. So no, these guys are not going to bomb anyone.

Back to the original question - I don’t think Obama capitulated. Iran did. Sure, the Iranians managed to wriggle out some last-minute concessions from tired and distracted Kerry, but it’s a defeat for them nevertheless. Where is Ahmadinejad’s claim now that they’ll never renounce nuclear weapon development?

The whole Iranian political apparatus had to get behind the deal to sell it to the conservatives. And most of the anti-american rants is part of the regular political discourse. Like Kruschev’s “we will bury you” and “glory to the people, death to capitalism”.

Iranians are the most pro-American of all islamic countries, I’ve been into excluding maybe Lebanese and to some degree Albanians.

You want to get really, really frigthened? Cross the Hormuz from Iran, vist Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. Even UAE. Now these people are scary. Vain, ignorant, IRRATIONAL and crazy. Not necessarily insane crazy, but medieval crazy.

And they have A LOT of money and are using it further their interests. And the most frightening thing is that the US is listening to them, in Yemen for example. So you are waging a war with your enemy against his enemies?

The same thing with Pakistan in Afghanistan, where ISI personnel were planning attacks against ISAF troops using their taliban proxies in the same building where the Pakistani government officials were receiving the US Secretary of State to discuss “fighting the taliban”.

Rant over.

318

Thanks for your response. I have nothing to say however. I don’t talk politics here anymore. Takes up too much time anyway.

319

[quote]loppar wrote:

Currently I’m very pissed about the US policy in Ukraine, aka “please stop the invas…I mean incursion or we’ll continue to acquiesce with mild verbal complaints”. Middle East is a clusterfuck, and American naivete there is frustrating, regardless of the administration.
[/quote]

I recall in another thread you claimed the Russian situation (before the current invas…incursion, I think we were talking about Georgia at the time…) was all the fault of the United States encroaching on what once was Russian territory? What would you the have US do, what should we do?

320

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

I recall in another thread you claimed the Russian situation (before the current invas…incursion, I think we were talking about Georgia at the time…) was all the fault of the United States encroaching on what once was Russian territory? What would you the US do, what should we do?[/quote]

Nope, I definitely didn’t say “encroaching”. The “Russian territory” is a Russian nationalistic myth used to justify brazen land grabs. Georgia and Ukraine for example.

The thing is if you meddle/assist a government, you have to stick to it. The Georgians believed in the US, retrained their army, sent it to Iraq. If you’re the ally of the worlds largest superpower, you are safe, right? That’s how the global security system works.

Well, obviously not. Putin did what he wanted, took South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008. Even threatened to take the Red army to Tbilisi and, quote: “Hang Shalikashvili by the balls from a lamppost”. A president of a sovereign country, and an US ally to boot. And nothing was heard from the US.

So in Ukraine the US did the worst possible thing, did nothing except providing meek verbal support and some token assistance. If the Russian government and their propaganda machine is claiming that “separatists” are fighting “NATO soldiers” why isn’t the US helping militarily? They sure have nothing to lose from a propaganda side…

I mean, military aid was so lavishly spent on that joke of the Iraq army and Ukrainians get unarmed Hummers? Yeah, that’s sure gonna deter Putin.

Russians (USSR included) only respect you if you have a tough rhetoric and then back it up. Cuban missile crisis was caused by the failure to back the tough rhetoric on Cuba, which was seen as a sign of weakness by Kennedy. After your bluff is called, you cannot be taken seriously again, not until the leadership changed.

The US has given them the green light to Putin with the Syria “red line” fiasco. Hesitation. If you hesitate in Syria, you’ll hesitate with Crimea, East Ukraine, maybe even the Baltic States.

Each attempt more brazen.

In conclusion, the solution is an immediate military assistance to Ukraine, and a US training center in Lviv.