Right on. I don’t mind the occasional error, but at least write it so we can read it. If you don’t speak english, that’s one thing, but if your posts are just lazy and stupid expect replies in the same vein.
To Doogie: Sorry, I thought it was you. (I guess the first three letters of your name confused me…) Maybe it was natey…it’s been a while!
To L&F: Nice one! Yup, you had me going for a moment!
As for your new name, my considered opinion is that “JoMon” would be best. Especially if you know anything about Japanese historical periods… 
To Eric Cressey: Yup, I know exactly what you mean!
I think some of these pet peeves are age related issues, and with age of course comes education (although not always).
One of the things that attracts most of us to T-mag is the intelligence of the magazine. There is not a lot of photos, but rather dense articles filled with information that requires assessment and thought process. Those that are drawn to a site like T-mag appreciate a well thought out article by authors who have done their research and documented their sources. For the same reasons that most of us enjoy the articles, we also appreciate a thought out and well written post.
However, some people aren’t interested in reading and learning, they want the information to be spoon fed to them, hence the forum with unintelligible posts. Of course that frusterates those of us who spend our time reading and learning.
As far as the “ur” abbreviations, I think it’s a common trait of a younger generation, getting back to that age and education correlation. I don’t mean to sound like I’m 25 going on 50, but these abbreviations seem to mostly come from high school kids.
Lastly, and I realize this post is long winded, I just want to say thanks to all the regulars who keep posting their wealth of information. Before I ever posted, I was a lurker for a good year and a half who gained a ton of information from all the regulars. I can’t list everyone (without sounding like a nominee at the Oscars), but thanks for the well written and well thought out posts.
I caught your drift, you elitest bastards!!! Just kidding.
I agree with SnookyPoo, um, I mean John Roman.
Ok, Understood on Joel Marion’s “Larger Issue’s” and I will try to comply (Thought I did other than a misplaced semi-colon and a open bold tag).
I am getting the feeling that it really doesn’t matter about punctuation or grammar but more about just being new here, not in your inner circle of
T-Mag regulars.
Hope I am wrong about that becuase being new is not the same as being a newbie, and it may be difficult to build a T-NATION with 20 or so people.
I think Colin has a good point, at least in that there could be a perception by new posters that they don’t belong in the clique. Again, I said perception - I was not making a statement on the validity of what some people may feel. I think the new posters need to take into consideration that when they start posting, no one else “knows” them, and thus it would be helpful to build a bit of a message board rapport with them. The “older” posters also should shy away from an elitest, cliquish attitude along with statements like “I’ve been here since issue # blah blah blah”, which I’ve seen done. That is, if they truly want others to join in the fray that we call the T-Forum.
MBE’s chronological fixiation.
nodding head to what Collin and Jared are saying. Jared, btw, I don’t see myself as an “elitist” - but I see your point.
I believe in a sense of inclusion - this is, afterall, a forum (mostly) devoted to health/fitness/training/nutrition and this information is for everyone. Everyone has a right to be enlightened.
But the information/discussions posted here don't have to be devoid of proper punctuation and grammar, right?
I see people’s names on this board that I dont recognize all the time:
1. Some of the posts are well-written, coherent, and offer valuable advice...welcome to the forum and thanks for posting!
2. Some of the posts are from newbies who checked out the FAQ's, read some articles, and have questions about them...welcome to the forum and thanks for posting!
3. Some of them are from people who obviously randomly stumbled upon this site, decided to invade the message board with their great knowledge (when its all misinformation), and come across as an arrogent ass. You are not welcome here.
Then there are people who have posted for a while who seemingly dont understand how to have a discussion with someone they disagree with. They are also retards.
Then you have people who feel as though they have to flame someone and call them some sort of name, poke fun, etc. everytime a juvenile comment pops up on the board. They are also worthless.
There is a big difference between being new, being a newbie, and being an ass. We want all of the former two we can get, but the latter seems to be clogging the board and has driven and will continue to drive people away.
I know what it is like to deal with the issues I've mentioned (moreso than most people), and while there have been others who had their fair share of crap to deal with, they all basically said "fuck you" to this forum and now we cant enjoy their readily available knowledge anymore; knowledge that many many people learned from by just browsing the board. It's a shame.
No offense man, but you should not being the one telling people that arrogence is not allowed here at T-mag. Frankly, I don’t know who you think you are, (trying) to dictate who is allowed here and who isn’t. I know that I’m not the only one with this opinion. Anyone that wants to post here, may do so. You’ve supplied us with many good posts and an article or two, but all of that does not justify this holier-than-thou attitude you seem to have developed recently.
Yes, there seems to be a lot of garbage on the forum as of late. But with you “veterans” seemingly deciding that you are too knowledgable or whatever to post here anymore only makes it worse. The only one I see making an effort to start intelligent threads is Mufasa.
I can feel the heat coming already…
You’re right.
Don’t you mean “your right”? =)
I fail to see how asking people to 1.write intelligently 2. not be an ass 3. not be lazy, do your homework, is being arrogant. I see it as holding people to a certain standard, which will keep this forum at a level that is above the “meat head” or “newbie” forums.
I mean seriously, if you want to be stereotypical “muscle bound dumbass”, there are a hundred other forums out there.
This is not a flame, just my opinion, and it is shared by others. None of us want to quit helping, but many are tired of the same old bullshit. Stop the bullshit and they will come back, and make this the superior training/nutrition site that it is. If that is "arrogant" or "elitist", then so be it.
The thing that really alarms me is that one missed period can result in a pregnant pause.
John Roman: I’ll try to answer your question under the assumption that you would consider my posts thoughtful, organized, well-punctuated, etc. (If that is the case, I thank you for the compliment, even if unintentional). I try to use correct grammar primarily out of habit, but also for the reason that is so frequently mentioned: poor grammar makes one look silly. At the same time, however, I’m not a fan of prescriptive grammar, especially the one espoused here. While I shudder at the sight of “ur” instead of “your”, I experience the same discomfort when I see a misplaced modifier or faulty parallelism. (To be sure, no mistake would bother me to the point of ignoring a post entirely.) What is acceptable to one person may be an inexcusable error for another; I wouldn’t know where to draw the line. Hypercorrection compounds this issue: some people automatically think that “you and me” is always grammatically incorrect, when in fact it is not. The tendency here (as with split infinitives, abuse of “whom”, and stranded prepositions, to name a few) is to be super grammar-conscious. I understand that nobody is asking for perfect grammar, but at the same time, I fail to see how imploring the use of “your” over “ur” serves any purpose. As has been often said, if you can understand the post, what is the problem?
Some advocates (if I can call them that) of “ur” contend that “this isn’t english class.” And while this claim is usually quickly dismissed, there is a certain truth in it. In english classes, students are penalized for incorrect grammar. On this forum, posters aren’t penalized; they’re just flamed. Their questions are almost always answered, and they move on. Every so often, a post like this crops up, but the fact remains that there is very little incentive to use good grammar on a forum of this sort. Of course, this argument, pushed to its logical conclusion, would suggest that this board adopt a policy that only grammatically correct posts are accepted. This is, of course, something that many posters wouldn’t approve of, not to mention the moderators (bless their souls!). Another option would be simply to ignore those posts that don’t exercise good grammar; again, this is something I don’t think anybody would want. In fact, I’d estimate that roughly 60% of the posts on this board would be ignored if this practice were to be instituted. (And please don’t think that I am suggesting that my grammar is perfect.) In conclusion, why would people hidden by anonymous (and changeable) names care even the slightest if they look silly on this board? Their questions are almost answered; what does it matter to them if some posters don’t like their grammar? One response would be to point out, as others already have, that intelligent posters are being driven away. This is a good response, but there are clearly several “veterans” who continue to post and reply to these sloppy posts. In short, without penalty, why should anybody use good grammar on this forum? I’m not trying to offend with these questions; they puzzle me as well. I hope this explanation helped.
Joel Marion: Would you kindly explain to me how I misunderstood the nature of Colin's post? Also, you said: "Then you have people who feel as though they have to flame someone and call them some sort of name, poke fun, etc. everytime a juvenile comment pops up on the board. They are also worthless." I find it ironic that, in criticizing the act of name-calling, you engage in it yourself, for example, "worthless" and "retard" (the latter of which some might find offensive). You may want to rethink some of your "rules."
Traildog: That's good. Here is another one, although I must give credit to David Moser: "This sentence is a !!!!! premature punctuator"
The word T-man.
Having some recent experience on this matter, I think I can add something to this thread. One of my first posts was chopped up, mispelled, and just plain foolishly written, and I was hammered for it. At first I was angry and all that, but I had to agree with the guy that “scolded” me. So what did I do? The next time I posted I just paid more attention and tried harder, and I also looked at the “writer’s guidelines” in the back of a dictionary to refresh my memory. Anyway, my point is: if grammar and punctuation problems bother people, just yell at them. They might be motivated to work harder and become better posters. On a side note, I do kind of see a sort of group “cool people” trend, but it might be because I have not been posting long. Maybe its like going to a new school, I dunno. Anyways, thanks.
You are also right.
Well, as the person who “scolded” mace.J, I have to say that this was a case where it turned out very well. mace.J cleaned up his act (as opposed to those people who seem to equate a poor level of spelling and punctuation with virility, and who seem to interpret any advice in the area as an attack on their masculinity), and we had a nice long discussion that was (I think) mutually beneficial, enlightening and even somewhat humerous. A pretty good result for someone’s first post, right?
Even if I DID thrash the bejeezus out him both logically and rhetorically…
(Just kidding, mace! Juuuuust kidding! I love you, man.)
As for nate’s very well thought-out and virtually letter-perfect post, yes, there are several good points, and you’re right to make them. I agree with most of them, especially the point about what constitutes an acceptable level of English. Definitely a problem. All I can say to that is: people should try their best. And posting one huge run-on doesn’t qualify as trying one’s best.
However, the one point that I DISagree with is the response thing. Yeah, you might get a response with a shitty post. But what’s the quality of that response going to be?
Even if one of the more knowledgeable people decides to help you out, it’s always better to have more opinions about a given problem. If you look at some of the recent threads, you’ll see that there are a few that generate a large number of very good responses from people who know what they’re talking about. The poster typically takes a bit of this and a bit of that and ends up with something really good. Contrast this with a less well thought-out/written post, and you’ll see that both the number and quality of responses drops dramatically.
Seems to me that if you’re going to take the trouble to post in the first place, you’d want to get the best feedback possible. But that’s just me.
The use of “prolly” in place of “probably”. I honestly think some people believe it’s spelled that way.