Forcing Catholics to Support Birth Control?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Links, please, Senor BlueCollar.[/quote]

For the poll that shows most Catholics support birth control? Here they are:

This one says only 2% of Catholic women rely on natural planning

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/Harris-Interactive-Poll-Research-New-Finds-Different-Religious-Groups-H-2005-10.pdf

Catholic women in the United States were more likely than American women as a whole to use the birth control pill, and only slightly less likely to use a condom

90% of American Catholic women surveyed said they wanted to see access to birth control services at community hospitals.

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/topics/prevention/documents/2004worldview.pdf

[/quote]

Sorry, Raj, but you failed in your attempt to pinch hit for him.

Read his claim more carefully:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

The majority of Catholics polled favor the requirement. When only Catholic women are polled the number is over 85%. About the same % with both genders under 30. These include the very people working at the Catholic institutions…
[/quote][/quote]

The very last link I provided shows that American Catholic women want to see birth control services at community hospitals. It may not completely back his claim, but it’s not unreasonable to think most Catholics might actually be in favour of such a policy.

Of course this is a completely separate issue from whether they should be forced by the gov’t to offer these services…

166

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sorry, Raj, but you failed in your attempt to pinch hit for him.
[/quote]

The very last link I provided shows that American Catholic women want to see birth control services at community hospitals. It may not completely back his claim, but it’s not unreasonable to think most Catholics might actually be in favour of such a policy.

Of course this is a completely separate issue from whether they should be forced by the gov’t to offer these services…[/quote]

I believe the surveys linked are plenty to support the statement I posted. I was not making any claim. There have been any number of surveys in past years that have duplicated the results. Push has seen them for himself. That is not to say a survey is a statement of fact or that the Church should base it’s position on the preference of it’s flock.

167

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sorry, Raj, but you failed in your attempt to pinch hit for him.
[/quote]

The very last link I provided shows that American Catholic women want to see birth control services at community hospitals. It may not completely back his claim, but it’s not unreasonable to think most Catholics might actually be in favour of such a policy.

Of course this is a completely separate issue from whether they should be forced by the gov’t to offer these services…[/quote]

I believe the surveys linked are plenty to support the statement I posted. I was not making any claim. There have been any number of surveys in past years that have duplicated the results. Push has seen them for himself. That is not to say a survey is a statement of fact or that the Church should base it’s position on the preference of it’s flock. [/quote]

Yep, and guess what there’s more.

Students At Catholic Colleges Protest Lack Of Access To Birth Control

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2012/02/contraception-catholic-bishops-obama-hhs/1

And here’s where the Catholic women come in. According to the Public Religion Research Institute poll released today,

A majority (55%) of Americans agree that “employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception and birth control at no cost.” Four-in-ten (40%) disagree with this requirement.

Key breakdowns

58% of all Catholics agree employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception. That slides down to 52% for Catholic voters, 50% for white Catholics.

61% of religiously unaffiliated Americans say employer plans should cover contraception.
50%of white mainline Protestants want the coverage. However, for evangelical Protestants, that drops to 38%.

He’ll just ignore it though.

169

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sorry, Raj, but you failed in your attempt to pinch hit for him.
[/quote]

The very last link I provided shows that American Catholic women want to see birth control services at community hospitals. It may not completely back his claim, but it’s not unreasonable to think most Catholics might actually be in favour of such a policy.

Of course this is a completely separate issue from whether they should be forced by the gov’t to offer these services…[/quote]

I believe the surveys linked are plenty to support the statement I posted. I was not making any claim. There have been any number of surveys in past years that have duplicated the results. Push has seen them for himself. That is not to say a survey is a statement of fact or that the Church should base it’s position on the preference of it’s flock. [/quote]

Let’s examine your post one more time:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

The majority of Catholics polled favor the requirement. When only Catholic women are polled the number is over 85%. About the same % with both genders under 30. These include the very people working at the Catholic institutions…

[/quote]

You made up, i.e., LIED, that Catholics had been polled about the ObamaCare’s requirement forcing the Catholic Church to provide insurance that covers abortions and contraceptives.

You got caught with your pants down.

It would be easier on you if just admitted you were full of shit. Or maybe you’d better just lie low for awhile.[/quote]

Sure, the specifics of his post are unsupported to this point, likely as a result of him reading a survey and incorrectly reciting it from memory.

However the ‘spirit’ of his post is not incorrect. Survey after survey, poll after poll, study after study all indicate the majority of Catholics want contraceptive services in their hospitals. Not even the Catholics actively participating in this thread are denying this.

Now you can continue to harp on the exact numbers and wording he chose, or you can be honest and look at the issue on the whole.

170

Someone should tell Obama that he can’t win. Contact your reps., defeat this tyrannical assault on the 1st amendment.

171

[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Oh, absolutely. That’s how them statisticians do surveys, I’m sure. [/quote]Please tell me why not. I shouldn’t have to say it to you by now, but I’m asking honestly.
EDIT: I suspect you think I’m picking a fight with you. I assure I am not looking to get ugly. I’m simply asking you. Ayes and nays pass laws. Why is not a show of hands, in public, not hidden behind a pollsters pen, not sufficient to demonstrate a congregation’s view?

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Oh, absolutely. That’s how them statisticians do surveys, I’m sure. [/quote]Please tell me why not. I shouldn’t have to say it to you by now, but I’m asking honestly.
EDIT: I suspect you think I’m picking a fight with you. I assure I am not looking to get ugly. I’m simply asking you. Ayes and nays pass laws. Why is not a show of hands, in public, not hidden behind a pollsters pen, not sufficient to demonstrate a congregation’s view?[/quote]

Because it’s a show of hands, where one’s fellows are watching.

173

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Oh, absolutely. That’s how them statisticians do surveys, I’m sure. [/quote]Please tell me why not. I shouldn’t have to say it to you by now, but I’m asking honestly.
EDIT: I suspect you think I’m picking a fight with you. I assure I am not looking to get ugly. I’m simply asking you. Ayes and nays pass laws. Why is not a show of hands, in public, not hidden behind a pollsters pen, not sufficient to demonstrate a congregation’s view?[/quote]

Because it’s a show of hands, where one’s fellows are watching. [/quote]DO NOT take this the wrong way, but are you this used to being surrounded by people who lie? Would it make any difference if I told you that I know a rather large number of these folks quite well and every last one of em is on our side of every last one of these issues? My pastor openly and publicly supported McCain despite being quite persuasively black, much the chagrin of the Jeremiah Wright types in our city. It’s not a matter of preaching politics which I assure you is not done from our pulpit. The presence of the gospel of Christ ipso facto defines things for people who trust their eternal lives to Him.

I will tell you again that I believe such people do exist in the pews of your church. In spite of her. You might even be one. I just know Brother Chris is. He emailed me today btw. I really love that boy. He finished Thomas’s Summa Theologica too. A commendable thing. That is not coffee table fare there. Nope. I am not gittin sidetracked any worse now. =]

174

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
DO NOT take this the wrong way, but are you this used to being surrounded by people who lie?
[/quote]

Keep it classy, Tiribulus.

edit: What the heck happened to you? You have to drag your crud into a thread about religious liberty? Learn some manners, you’re in a public space. You use a laughable show of hands at a pro-life rally to take pot shots at the Church, in a thread about religious liberty? And then you try to turn it around on me with this bull-malarky? Newsflash, there’s no more spiritually dead faith in this country than your beloved Calvinistic-Puritan-whatchamadoodle. Oh yes, Tirib, ‘your folks’ certainly were the face of early America, for the most part. But, look at their descendents now. Look at those folks’ country now. Eviscerated. Hollowed out. Their sons and daughters secularists. Where still religious, splintered into a multitude of squabbling denominations who’ve apparently arrived at different understandings, via sola scripture. Go look for tables to overturn somewhere else. Don’t come at me with your right hand out in friendship, only to smack me with the left. Save your reply until you think it through real hard. I’m already about over your forum-waged sectarian crap and thread hijacking.

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?There?s time to get this worked out in a way that respects religious freedom, but also makes sure that women can get birth control,? McCaskill told reporters. ?I?m hoping that they will find a compromise where there would be notice or riders or some way that we could get there.?

McCaskill said several Senate Democrats raised the issue at Wednesday?s retreat, at which President Barack Obama spoke.

?A number of people said it in different ways yesterday,? she said Thursday.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=6F50668C-E04B-49B9-B348-0DE456DAED21

Starting to feel the heat?

177

Can’t be any worse than instutionalized rape of defenseless children. This way they’ll be aborted and won’t grow up to be deaf/mute altar boys.

178

[quote]Sloth wrote:
?There?s time to get this worked out in a way that respects religious freedom, but also makes sure that women can get birth control,? McCaskill told reporters. ?I?m hoping that they will find a compromise where there would be notice or riders or some way that we could get there.?

McCaskill said several Senate Democrats raised the issue at Wednesday?s retreat, at which President Barack Obama spoke.

?A number of people said it in different ways yesterday,? she said Thursday.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=6F50668C-E04B-49B9-B348-0DE456DAED21

Starting to feel the heat?[/quote]

One of the alternatives I’ve heard proposed was supplementing the contraceptive insurance through obama care somehow for women who were not covered by their normal insurance. This way everyone is insured equally and religious institutions aren’t contributing to the parts they disagree with.

179

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/09/4251671/catholic-students-for-womens-health.html

Catholic Students for Women’s Health Supports Birth Control Coverage
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By Catholic Students for Women’s Health
Published: Thursday, Feb. 9, 2012 - 10:46 am
WASHINGTON, Feb. 9, 2012 –

Coalition of students from Catholic universities and local DC campuses applaud HHS regulations providing birth control without co-pay, tell Bishops to “back off”

WASHINGTON, Feb. 9, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ – “We are here today speaking out for millions of students across the country that applaud the Obama administration’s regulations and demand our right to exercise our individual religious freedoms by making personal medical decisions without interference from religious authorities,” says Callie Otto, Co-Founder of the Catholic University Students for Choice, at today’s Catholic Students for Women’s Health press conference in Washington, DC.

Students from Catholic universities are joined today by their colleagues from other local campuses in support of the regulations recently proposed by the Department of Health and Human Services requiring birth control coverage without co-pays or deductible and responding to the subsequent outcry from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“We will not back down because we believe that the religious freedom of individual Catholics and students, no matter what their faith, and the need for comprehensive women’s healthcare must take priority to the demands of the Catholic Bishops,” Otto continued.

“Access to birth control is a matter of health and human rights,” said Tea Sefer, board member of American University Students for Choice. “We all need to acknowledge these basic facts. Women deserve to make decisions for themselves, without anyone else, Catholic Bishop or not, restricting their access to family planning tools.”

According to Georgetown Law Students for Reproductive Justice member Sandra Fluke, “In the worst cases, women who needed this medication for other medical reasons have suffered dire consequences. Just one example of many is a friend of mine. Her inability to access these prescriptions caused the loss of her ovary. These burdens are not shared by our male student colleagues.”

“Most women use contraception at some point in their life, including 98% of Catholic women[1],” says Keely Monroe, Fordham University alumnus. “Judging by the fact that only 10% of US Catholics believe that church leaders have the final say about contraception[2], I think we can all agree that a woman’s own conscience matters the most in matters relating to her health and life.”

[1] National Survey of Family Growth/Centers for Disease Control, cited in R.K. Jones and J. Dreweke, “Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use,” Guttmacher Institute, April 2011.

[2] National Catholic Reporter, “Right and Wrong: Who Has the Final Say?” October 24, 2011

SOURCE Catholic Students for Women’s Health

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
[1] National Survey of Family Growth/Centers for Disease Control, cited in R.K. Jones and J. Dreweke, “Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use,” Guttmacher Institute, April 2011.
[/quote]

Link please. I’ve googled and can only find it used as a source. I would like to look at the methodology used in that study.