[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yep. Well, guess some folks will have to lose their insurance coverage. And that’ll be the result of this, by the way. [/quote]
That is exactly what will happen. It isn’t the contraceptives as much as the mandate also includes abortion services and previously said abortion medications.
What choice is there? The church, in good conscience, support these abominations on it’s dime. It goes against what we believe. If we accepted it as is, then our words mean nothing. So we have to refuse this.
It is a fact that this health bill is the largest expansion of abortion services on the tax payer dime in the history of the U.S. [/quote]
But isnt it grand how every reform brings up the topics that we all know will never be resolved, whereas the ones that could are being held at the back of the stage?[/quote]
I am not sure what your talking about here. This is really about forcing the Catholic Church to provide the ability for and support financially something it is vehemently against. It’s a first amendment issue. The church will not be able to provide it’s employees with benefits that goes against it’s teachings. It’s like trying to make PETA employees support the NRA.[/quote]
Sure and now eeeeeeerryyyyyyone can grandstand, have fundraiser dinners and whatnot, meanwhile the country is still broke, the wars go on, entitlements are still unsustainable…[/quote]
Everybody is grandstanding anyway about anything. Problem avoidance or flat denial didn’t just miraculously appear with this issue. Obama picked a fight he can’t win, that’s not our fault, we’re just not going to do what he says and we will fight it in court. [/quote]
This particular issue is part of the other issues mentioned, it is part of a pattern, one that if we’ve studied our history, we’d notice.
One of the first things that both Hitler and the National Socialists did, as well as Stalin in the United Soviet Socialist Republic did was to legalize contraception and abortion as well as cradle to grave entitlements. All this was done while eroding the Church by enticing some of its leaders with secular power (remember, Hitler and Stalin were atheists).
The same thing has been going on in the US for decades, just slower and less obvious. First, Catholic politicians were enticed to embrace contraception and abortion as a means to woo voters (after Roe v. Wade, there was a meeting at the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport with dissident Catholic clergy like Fr. Charles Curran for the express purpose to find a way to use abortion to attract voters). Then, those politicians were given places of power (Kennedy, Biden, Sibelius, Pelosi…). Now, those self-same politicians are the ones who are undermining the Church…just like what happened in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia (and is happening now in China).
It is a hallmark of Christianity to exist rather peaceably within a polity. In fact, Christians are called to obey the secular authorities insofar as those authorities do not ask the Christian to disobey God. However, polities haven’t been able to exist peacably with Christians: it is an ongoing theme in history for secular rulers to continually assert the control and importance of the state over the Church. Numerous Byzantine Emperors did it. Louis XIV did it. Henry VIII did it, Elizabeth I (well, not her but her handlers) did it. The Tokugawa shoguns did it. Robespierre did it, Hitler did it, Stalin did it, and Mao did it.