[quote]therajraj wrote:
Two-thirds (65 percent) of US Catholic voters believe that hospitals and clinics taking taxpayer dollars
should not be allowed to refuse to provide certain medications or procedures
Another one carried out by Belden Russonello & Stewart.[/quote]
I have to agree with both of you on this matter of surveys and study. Your point that the surveys say what they say is true. SM’s point that you can create a survey and find a demographic to make it say anything you want it to is also a valid point.
Most surveys have a sample size of 1000 or less and most of them are done on the phone. So the real demographic that your measuring is people, who have home phones (cell phones are still safe from predatory sales and survey calls), who actually answer them, and who are willing to spend time taking a survey. That already creates a huge margin of error. I certainly have refused my share of phone surveys.
Then you have the wording and presentation issues of the survey itself.
So what you have to look at in survey settings is look at margin of error in the survey and the multiply it times the number of people it’s supposed to represent. You’re margin of error, in the extrapolated sense will be waaaaay outside the range of statistical significance.
When you are looking at the surveys, observe how carefully they word what the results mean. They know people will run wild with it on their own, but the surveyors carefully word it so it sounds like it may mean a little something, but with great reservation.
Seriously, 1000 people who have a home phone they are willing to answer and take a survey on, does not accurately represent the thoughts and feelings of 70 million. 1000 goes into 70 million, 70,000 times.
Let’s say I want to prove that the majority of democrats are anti abortion… All I have to do is word my survey in such a way that most people will answer to the negative on abortion. Say like “Do you believe it’s right to kill children?” Most will likely say no, and then I can go around saying that even most democrats are against abortions.
You are missing something critical. First, is that the US is NOT a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. The constitution is the ultimate law of the land. It is designed to protect the individual from both the government AND popular opinion. It does not matter how popular something is if it violates an individual liberty.
It could be that 99% of the population want the government to do something that is a violation of 1% of the people’s god given rights. As such, it is illegal, immoral, and unjust, no matter how popular. Rule by popularity is equivalent to mob rule. The whole basis for our system of government was to prevent popularity from being able to do something exactly like this.
Second, and similarly, churches are not governed by popularity or mob rule. The teachings of the church are independent from the popular opinion of the people who claim to be of that faith. Right now I could claim to be catholic and be pro abortion, it doesn’t mean that catholic religion is pro-abortion.
But look at the effort it took from the very highest levels of the Catholic church in addition to support at the grass roots level. And of course this is an election year. Can any of us imagine the amount of tyranny if Obama gets a second term? With out the electorate to answer to Obama will be unbearable!
But look at the effort it took from the very highest levels of the Catholic church in addition to support at the grass roots level. And of course this is an election year. Can any of us imagine the amount of tyranny if Obama gets a second term? With out the electorate to answer to Obama will be unbearable![/quote]
I am going to chalk it up to providence that this issue came out this year. If it were next, he would not have backed off one bit.
There is a big reason most of the healthcare mandates are to come out after the 2012 election. Just wait till all of it goes into law, Ug.
That was one of my motivating factors for getting my back fixed this year. Good thing too, coverage is already less this year than last…But the cost is higher. Thanks obama…Asshole.
[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Sorry, but I’m not self-abusive enough to deal with one of your 2+2=4 threads. Nor, your ranting about sola scriptura, only to watch you come with some bizarre extra-biblical explanation for why the earth and cosmology look NOTHING like (firmament, waters of space, gates in the dome, what’s described in the old testament. >>>[/quote] I never thought I’d see YOU like this. Oh no my old friend. I am double darin you to defend this: [quote]"Newsflash, there’s no more spiritually dead faith in this country than your beloved Calvinistic-Puritan-whatchamadoodle. Oh yes, Tirib, ‘your folks’ certainly were the face of early America, for the most part. But, look at their descendents now. Look at those folks’ country now. Eviscerated. Hollowed out. Their sons and daughters secularists. Where still religious, splintered into a multitude of squabbling denominations who’ve apparently arrived at different understandings, via sola scripture.[/quote] statement. I’ll do epistemology ANY day with ANYbody, but that’s not what this is about. No 2+2=4 thread this time. My goal is to demonstrate in iron clad fashion where this country came from and why she’s going where she is. It is the key to absolutely EVERY last one of these political threads and ESPECIALLY one dealing with liberty. You can help me. God never ceases to show His perfect wisdom and power. This could not possibly have worked out better.
Don’t run away now. The truth will set you free. (John 8:32, my Lord how that conversation applies here) Please DO NOT make me wrong about you not being a coward. That would truly break my heart. I mean like truly. You have me and this situation all wrong Sloth.
[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< You once were a friend. My friends have more respect. Go find someone else to stalk.
[/quote]Oh I AM stalking you now and NOBODY on the face of this globe has more respect for you than I do. I have repeatedly declared you to be one of my top five favorite people here. That has not changed though this is not primarily about you and I. I don’t wanna play hardball here getting you up to the plate, but I will if I have to.
Now you can continue to harp on the exact wording he chose,…[/quote]
But that’s not what he said. He said Catholics supported the ObamaCare REQUIREMENT.
Now quit beating the poor boy’s drum. He oughta be man enough to do it himself without the assistance of a strikeout prone poster.[/quote]
Someday I may disagree with you about the ‘heart of the matter’ and go toe to toe with you Push, but today is not that day. I will concede that my posting would have been more acurate if it had began with 'It seems…
But look at the effort it took from the very highest levels of the Catholic church in addition to support at the grass roots level. And of course this is an election year. Can any of us imagine the amount of tyranny if Obama gets a second term? With out the electorate to answer to Obama will be unbearable![/quote]
However, look how fast we got it changed… Less than 2 weeks. When we pull together, it’s hard to stop us…
This is my take on this notion of freedom. I don’t know your position but if its that you think the government is forcing Catholics then I think that is mistaken.
Seems to me there is only 2 positions
listen to the catholic church and make it harder to get birth control
or
make birth control available through health care coverage.
If you make bc more available it doesn’t follow that all catholics have to take it, they would have a choice.
If you limit bc then those who want it have less freedom to use it.
Give this set up, its not the government that is limiting freedom, rather its the catholic church that is.
[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Sorry, but I’m not self-abusive enough to deal with one of your 2+2=4 threads. Nor, your ranting about sola scriptura, only to watch you come with some bizarre extra-biblical explanation for why the earth and cosmology look NOTHING like (firmament, waters of space, gates in the dome, what’s described in the old testament. >>>[/quote] I never thought I’d see YOU like this. Oh no my old friend. I am double darin you to defend this: [quote]"Newsflash, there’s no more spiritually dead faith in this country than your beloved Calvinistic-Puritan-whatchamadoodle. Oh yes, Tirib, ‘your folks’ certainly were the face of early America, for the most part. But, look at their descendents now. Look at those folks’ country now. Eviscerated. Hollowed out. Their sons and daughters secularists. Where still religious, splintered into a multitude of squabbling denominations who’ve apparently arrived at different understandings, via sola scripture.[/quote] statement. I’ll do epistemology ANY day with ANYbody, but that’s not what this is about. No 2+2=4 thread this time. My goal is to demonstrate in iron clad fashion where this country came from and why she’s going where she is. It is the key to absolutely EVERY last one of these political threads and ESPECIALLY one dealing with liberty. You can help me. God never ceases to show His perfect wisdom and power. This could not possibly have worked out better.
Don’t run away now. The truth will set you free. (John 8:32, my Lord how that conversation applies here) Please DO NOT make me wrong about you not being a coward. That would truly break my heart. I mean like truly. You have me and this situation all wrong Sloth.
[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< You once were a friend. My friends have more respect. Go find someone else to stalk.
[/quote]Oh I AM stalking you now and NOBODY on the face of this globe has more respect for you than I do. I have repeatedly declared you to be one of my top five favorite people here. That has not changed though this is not primarily about you and I. I don’t wanna play hardball here getting you up to the plate, but I will if I have to.
[/quote]
Go sell it somewhere else Tirib. I don’t argue with the sandwich board wearing types. Which is EXACTLY what’ve you become in the past few months on this forum. It’s old and tired.
