[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I’m reading all this and it occured to me the only people who will take democracy seriously are the ones who want it and fight for it themselves. Forcing democracy upon people who don’t want will surely end badly.
Democratic nations will still wage war against each other–to argue that they won’t is naive and shortsighted. As long personalities and opinions differ there will always be confilct. The best we can do is try and stop the growing dispartities between the classes thoroughout the world.
How do we do this? I don’t know. For starters we could make sure people had enough to eat and that abuses against ethnic minrorities are stopped. We could quit giving aid to monarchies and dictatorial regimes. How is it okay to support a country like Saudia Arabia because they have oil (IMO: because we are self serving) yet go to war against one of their neighbors because they have (or thought the had) WMD? Should we not be invading Iran then?
Conflict has nothing to do with how people are governed it has to do with power.[/quote]
Further evidence that you have yet to crack a history book.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Whoah there. What happened to all the concerns about restrictions on freedom? The fact he is ALLOWED to hold his own opinions, and that TV stations are ALLOWED to air it, or even that he is ALLOWED to speak it? Or that he is ALLOWED to simply refuse to take a simple economic action with which he disagrees? If CVS wants to let him do it, that’s up to them – and if he has his own pharmacy and doesn’t want to sell certain products, it should be completely up to him.
Professor X wrote:
The difference is the care of that patient. If this were a life and death situation, I would rather a pharmacist not argue my choice in medication based on nothing but his religious stance. If this were a random matter concerning a store owner, you would have an obvious point. This man states he is willing to lose his job over this because he doesn’t believe in abortions. I personally think it has gotten out of hand when your treatment of patients becomes based on your own religious beliefs.
Scenario:
A doctor has a woman whose life is in danger on his operating table. If he aborts the baby, it saves the mother’s life. If he keeps the baby, the mother dies. What does the doctor do?[/quote]
The doctor makes his moral decision based upon the oathes he took and the requirements of the profession for which he signed up.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don’t think pharmacists have the same requirements. If they do, he should follow them or get out of the profession.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The doctor makes his moral decision based upon the oathes he took and the requirements of the profession for which he signed up.
I may very well be wrong on this, but I don’t think pharmacists have the same requirements. If they do, he should follow them or get out of the profession. [/quote]
I think there is a “pharmacy oath”, but I have no idea what it is. Either way, this hinders patient care. It is very similar to someone standing in front of the Emergency entrance to a hospital because they have a religious stance against surgery. This is all fun and games until someone loses their life over it. Once someone’s “religious beliefs” (which by the way, nothing supports this stance in the bible) get in front of proper patient care, it has gone too far.
What people should be aware of is the possible backlash towards stances like this that are outwardly intrusive on other people’s way of of life. A pharmacist is a professional. They were trained to perform a task, not to make judgement calls on medication outside of proper health care.
This is a great topic…
It’s in our nature to kill and destroy ourselves. We live in a free and democratic nation, yet there are still wars being fought on our streets. There will never be an end to all wars, as long as us humans are around.
[quote]Dan-Trev wrote:
This is a great topic…
It’s in our nature to kill and destroy ourselves. We live in a free and democratic nation, yet there are still wars being fought on our streets. There will never be an end to all wars, as long as us humans are around.
[/quote]
I would say it is in nature, not in OUR nature. You may argue that people kill each other for stupid reasons all the time, but I think this is a product of being raised in a hostile/negative environment. I think humans in general are intrinsically ‘good’.
(Edit) - Whoops, just reread that. I’m not sure if it’s in ANYTHING’s nature to kill and destroy itself, except maybe lemmings when overpopulation occurs…
So…ya, humans in general are intrinsically good.
Saddam was supposedly so evil and hated by the Iraqis’ that some people can’t even fathom why they aren’t grateful for our intervention. Yet here was a guy who freely walked into armed crowds of citizens with people shooting into the air, seemingly without fear for his life?
All it would have taken was one of those people to take Saddam out and that person would instantly become a hero or martyr. Yet the US has this wonderful product called “freedom and democracy” and we can’t even seem to give it away - even by force.
The irony is, the people who support this war and want freedom for the Iraqis’ HATE ALL MUSLIMS. About $400 billion so far to liberate people the pro-war crowd can’t stand anyway.
Supposedly they attacked us because they hate our freedoms… obviously then the next logical step would be to FORCE freedom on them and call them UNGRATEFUL when they don’t want it!
Meanwhile, while we spread freedom and democracy, we’re more in danger of terrorist attacks because nobody seems to want this glorious gift that we’re trying to give only out of our compassion for the human race. A repressed people should suredly rise up in majority against it’s own government with the backing of the US military.
Most any country should be completely under control and free - 6 months tops… so I’ve been told.
Most any country should be completely under control and free - 6 months tops… so I’ve been told.[/quote]
I think this would be the case if not for an organized group of psychopaths who insist on blowing themselves up, along with many innocent civilians, as some sort of fucking holy protest.
You are reminiscent of Hannibal Lecter. Highly intelligent, but completely and totally bonkers none the less."
You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone, but you’re not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, Brother E? And that accent you’ve tried so desperately to shed? Pure West Virginia. What’s your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamb? You know how quickly the boys found you… all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars… while you could only dream of getting out… getting anywhere… getting all the way to Colorado!!!
Freedom, imperialism call it whatever you like, as long as you can keep filling your SUV. I love the way you “pro-war” types keep trying to assert how into freedom you are. If you love freedom som much why don’t you go sign up your sons to go fight it or why don’t you yourself go grab an age waiver and do it yourself…I hear they’re having a though time recruiting people.
Oh by the way here’s a great picture of our troops giving freedon to Irag on the same site.
from this same site:
"We have documented that the use of torture and ill treatment is widespread and that the US government is a leading purveyor and practitioner of this odious human rights violation… "
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
BEING “free and democratic” is one thing - getting there is another. Good in theory - unfortunately WE lose more of our freedoms in the process of molding the world into our own image.
Tyranny always follows freedom and democracy anyway because it’s a cyclical process. The populace eventually becomes too comfortable, complacent and trusting as the government grows bigger and becomes more controlling and corrupt.
Freedom and democracy CAN NEVER be achieved through force - that is the polar opposite of “freedom and democracy”. That’s why the Iraq situation and all this talk about “spreading” freedom and democracy around the globe is so scary to a lot of people. Those things aren’t GIVEN by the government - they’re TAKEN FROM the government by the people.
Already people are getting implants containing all their personal info and school kids are being cataloged through a process that resembles an actual arrest, complete with fingerprinting. McGruff needs all your kids fingerprints for their own “safety”.
Unfortunately, until the world is “free”, we need to be able to read your email or know what books your reading or scan your retinas before you board a plane or enter the football stadium or go into the mall. We need to know where your vehicle is at all times and how many miles you drove and how fast you were going - strictly for your protection.
Then once we weaponize space and rid the world of terrorism, everything can go back to normal.
“Freedom is on the march” alright - unfortunately “freedom” is doing the goosestep.[/quote]
Absolute balderdash! We invaded a country(Iraq) that did nothing to us. Invading sovergn nations and supporting armies that do, help only the rich and powerful and fill people with hatred against this country. That only seems natural.
Thousands upon thousands of innocent people died in the Vietnam debacle. This country’s foreign policy and covert ops have done little to help and much to bring about world hatred against the U.S. Intervention as defined by the U.S. foreign policy is a fucking disaster that breeds hatred towards us.
What is truly pathetic is how our government lied to Tilghman’s parents. They used his death to help stir the jingoistic pot that many on this forum wallow in. Truly tasteless.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Absolute balderdash! We invaded a country(Iraq) that did nothing to us. Invading sovergn nations and supporting armies that do, help only the rich and powerful and fill people with hatred against this country. That only seems natural.
Thousands upon thousands of innocent people died in the Vietnam debacle. This country’s foreign policy and covert ops have done little to help and much to bring about world hatred against the U.S. Intervention as defined by the U.S. foreign policy is a fucking disaster that breeds hatred towards us.[/quote]
Exuse me. The abouve post is in reference to Cream’s post talking about how interventions work.
