I have to work now 
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Alright, there is a significant amount of conflation going on here.
You have:
Individual above the line deductions
Individual below the line deductions
Individual credits
Business expenses
Business credits
after that you start getting into the “scheme” deal.
Which of the above are we talking about here?[/quote]
beans we both know you will win the debate of tax code so why bother . My point is that is the way to avoid paying taxes [/quote]
Why bother?
SO I can explain things to you and Nick so you can help your own positions.
Because to be honest, saying things like “I hate write-offs” doesn’t fly with people who understand what is going on. When a client comes in and says, “I want to write off as much as I can” it is one of those put your head in your hand moments and realize your bill just grew 3-50 hours.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Alright, there is a significant amount of conflation going on here.
You have:
Individual above the line deductions
Individual below the line deductions
Individual credits
Business expenses
Business credits
after that you start getting into the “scheme” deal.
Which of the above are we talking about here?[/quote]
beans we both know you will win the debate of tax code so why bother . My point is that is the way to avoid paying taxes [/quote]
Why bother?
SO I can explain things to you and Nick so you can help your own positions.
Because to be honest, saying things like “I hate write-offs” doesn’t fly with people who understand what is going on. When a client comes in and says, “I want to write off as much as I can” it is one of those put your head in your hand moments and realize your bill just grew 3-50 hours. [/quote]
And if you write off 100% of your income you are no longer eligible for loans. You have to show an ability to pay for a loan and if you show 0 income you have no ability to pay.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Why bother?
SO I can explain things to you and Nick so you can help your own positions.
Because to be honest, saying things like “I hate write-offs” doesn’t fly with people who understand what is going on. When a client comes in and says, “I want to write off as much as I can” it is one of those put your head in your hand moments and realize your bill just grew 3-50 hours. [/quote]
I don’t need any explanation. I am against taxes altogether. If our government must rob its people, then I want to see everybody robbed the same way.
The question is, if something can be written off on your taxes, then why was it taxed to begin with? If a family has five children, why should it get to keep more money than a single guy down the street? If someone gives money to a charity, why should he get to write that off?
Why do we accept a level of taxation that is obviously completely unnecessary?
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Why bother?
SO I can explain things to you and Nick so you can help your own positions.
Because to be honest, saying things like “I hate write-offs” doesn’t fly with people who understand what is going on. When a client comes in and says, “I want to write off as much as I can” it is one of those put your head in your hand moments and realize your bill just grew 3-50 hours. [/quote]
I don’t need any explanation. I am against taxes altogether. If our government must rob its people, then I want to see everybody robbed the same way.
The question is, if something can be written off on your taxes, then why was it taxed to begin with? If a family has five children, why should it get to keep more money than a single guy down the street? If someone gives money to a charity, why should he get to write that off?
Why do we accept a level of taxation that is obviously completely unnecessary?[/quote]
“The art of taxation consists in plucking the goose so as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.”
We give up way too many feathers to the pluckers with nary a hiss, let alone a bite.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
“The art of taxation consists in plucking the goose so as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.”
We give up way too many feathers to the pluckers with nary a hiss, let alone a bite.
[/quote]
I think last night was the first time I can ever remember seeing that quote(can’t remember now where I read it), and it’s great-glad you posted it tonight.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Alright, there is a significant amount of conflation going on here.
You have:
Individual above the line deductions
Individual below the line deductions
Individual credits
Business expenses
Business credits
after that you start getting into the “scheme” deal.
Which of the above are we talking about here?[/quote]
beans we both know you will win the debate of tax code so why bother . My point is that is the way to avoid paying taxes [/quote]
Why bother?
SO I can explain things to you and Nick so you can help your own positions.
Because to be honest, saying things like “I hate write-offs” doesn’t fly with people who understand what is going on. When a client comes in and says, “I want to write off as much as I can” it is one of those put your head in your hand moments and realize your bill just grew 3-50 hours. [/quote]
well , explain away But I will bet you will try and sell me how giving these huge write offs that we are encouraging investing.
I see it as a way to keep bean counters employed (MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED IT TAKES A COLLEGE DEGREE TO UNDERSTAND )
I also see it as a way to favor some one (MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED NO ONE CAN SEE THEY ARE GETTING FUCKED)
[quote]NickViar wrote:
I don’t need any explanation. I am against taxes altogether. If our government must rob its people, then I want to see everybody robbed the same way.
The question is, if something can be written off on your taxes, then why was it taxed to begin with? If a family has five children, why should it get to keep more money than a single guy down the street? If someone gives money to a charity, why should he get to write that off? [/quote]
A lot of points here, but it boils down to behavior modification and “reward” for certain activities that favor the State. Buying a home helps the State, having kids helps the State, etc.
As for charity giving, the reduction of taxable income that comes from giving to charities is a net loss for wealth management. (I can do the math for anyone confused.) So anyone that gives for “tax reasons” is an unmitigated fool. You give to charity because you want to. The 10-20% tax savings isn’t anything more than a nice bonus, but doesn’t actually net you any sort of advantage in the wealth department.
[quote]
Why do we accept a level of taxation that is obviously completely unnecessary?[/quote]
Because people are morons.
I’m more in favor of a progressive tax than a flat tax, which I know is very Contemporary American Liberal of me, but I do this shit every day. A flat tax isn’t going to solve enough problems to justify the problems it creates.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
well , explain away But I will bet you will try and sell me how giving these huge write offs that we are encouraging investing.
I see it as a way to keep bean counters employed (MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED IT TAKES A COLLEGE DEGREE TO UNDERSTAND )
I also see it as a way to favor some one (MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED NO ONE CAN SEE THEY ARE GETTING FUCKED)
[/quote]
Again, it depends on WHAT “write-offs” you are talking about.
Pick one and we’ll start there.
Beans, not to derail the current line of inquiry, but at what income level would you say it would make sense, in terms of tax-efficiency, to reorganize one’s business (assuming self-employment) as a corporation, paying oneself a nominal salary (perhaps one so low as to avoid paying personal income tax altogether), making all of one’s expenditures “corporate expenses”, and “reinvesting” corporate profits?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Beans, not to derail the current line of inquiry, but at what income level would you say it would make sense, in terms of tax-efficiency, to reorganize one’s business (assuming self-employment) as a corporation, paying oneself a nominal salary (perhaps one so low as to avoid paying personal income tax altogether), making all of one’s expenditures “corporate expenses”, and “reinvesting” corporate profits?[/quote]
Never.
Well, not never, but in the vast majority of cases, unless you are going public with your company, you are much better off as a flow thru entity, think S-Corp or LLC.
Becoming a C corp makes taking your capital returns or profits out economically prohibitive compared to a flow thru. The courts will pierce the veil quickly with C-Corps if you try and get cute like you describe.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Beans, not to derail the current line of inquiry, but at what income level would you say it would make sense, in terms of tax-efficiency, to reorganize one’s business (assuming self-employment) as a corporation, paying oneself a nominal salary (perhaps one so low as to avoid paying personal income tax altogether), making all of one’s expenditures “corporate expenses”, and “reinvesting” corporate profits?[/quote]
Never.
Well, not never, but in the vast majority of cases, unless you are going public with your company, you are much better off as a flow thru entity, think S-Corp or LLC.
Becoming a C corp makes taking your capital returns or profits out economically prohibitive compared to a flow thru. The courts will pierce the veil quickly with C-Corps if you try and get cute like you describe. [/quote]
Sigh.
Kinda what I figured. Ah well, guess I’ll just stick to Bahamian offshore trusts. 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Beans, not to derail the current line of inquiry, but at what income level would you say it would make sense, in terms of tax-efficiency, to reorganize one’s business (assuming self-employment) as a corporation, paying oneself a nominal salary (perhaps one so low as to avoid paying personal income tax altogether), making all of one’s expenditures “corporate expenses”, and “reinvesting” corporate profits?[/quote]
Never.
Well, not never, but in the vast majority of cases, unless you are going public with your company, you are much better off as a flow thru entity, think S-Corp or LLC.
Becoming a C corp makes taking your capital returns or profits out economically prohibitive compared to a flow thru. The courts will pierce the veil quickly with C-Corps if you try and get cute like you describe. [/quote]
This is pretty much how my employer does it. His salary is not nominally low but it is not large in comparison. Everything he does or buys goes on the company credit card.