Fixing The Race Thing

[JJJJ]

I have to admit that while enjoyed the back-and-forth and that some of you have made very valid points . . . I’ve completely failed to keep the focus on “fixing” the problem. Hopefully, though, some of you have been exposed to FACTS that you didn’t know before. That’s something.

I’d like to share the following article.

The author talks about an underclass that’s suffering from low intelligence. He does a pretty good job of painting the picture.

But as you read it, ask yourself, DOES IT EXPLAIN THE COMPLETE PICTURE?

Ask yourself, for example, if his conclusions about an underclass explain why one PART of the underclass commits so much crime?

I say no. And I say that THIS is the problem . . . the inability of our society to come to grips with the fact “that the Emperor has no clothes.”

The Coming Storm
Maybe, Anyway
Wednesday, April 29, 2004

THE BELL CURVE, an excellent book more maligned than read, pointed out a trend seldom noticed. The authors called it “cognitive stratification,” not a phrase Byron would have chosen but serviceable enough. It means the concentration of the intelligent.

In 1850 people of high intelligence were dispersed through the population. If the child of a cowboy had an IQ of 160, he would probably remain in the geographical region with cowboys. He might be more successful than most, and might choose as friends the quicker wits thereabouts. Yet he would be part of the community.

A cowboy could be intelligent, but didn?t have to be. But then came the professions that required high intelligence. The dull-witted cannot work as programmers, chemists, engineers, doctors, or investment brokers. They can be decent and productive. They cannot write assembly code for a planetary probe.

In 1850 there were few jobs requiring the very bright. Today they abound. Universities began to scour the country for the highly intelligent. These, once found, met each other at elite universities or, later, in the places where the bright concentrated to work: Laboratories, software houses, hospitals, magazine journalism, and occasionally law firms.

They married each other. Their children tended to be bright. The result has been that the bright tend to live, play, work, and sleep almost entirely with each other.

An opposite concentration occurs at the other end of the curve. In the cities the bright among the ghetto rise and leave for the suburbs. Who is left behind? If, generation after generation, the smartest take themselves out of the gene pool, the results will be just what we see. This is the underclass. It exists. It is larger than most people suspect. It is dangerous.

Underclass is not synonymous with “blacks.” There is a large and, I gather, growing black middle class. There is a substantial white component in the underclass. In the barrios of California one encounters Mexican unsalvageables. Whatever their color, they share low intelligence, little education, bastardy, and a tendency toward antisocial behavior. (Or, as we call it in English, crime.) They have no attachment to the standards that constitute civilization. They hate those above them.

Many of the insulated bright imagine themselves to be liberal (an arguable proposition), to care about “the people,” and to favor “diversity.” Few I’ll guess have had any contact with the underclass, or even with people who don’t have degrees. They have never been in South Central, never spent time in roadside stores in backcountry Kentucky or hung out with the crackers of Florida. They have never really met even normally intelligent rural people, whom they call rednecks. At their parties you do not see bus drivers or cops or factory hands.

If they knew “the people” they would not like them. The diversity they ideologically approve are people they viscerally detest. Down inside they must know this: It is why they avoid them. The diverso-elite alliance is a fragile one.

The elite do not understand, or perhaps more correctly refuse to admit, how very limited are the dull. They can’t concede that the course of managed improvement that they once believed in for the underclass, and try still to believe in, won’t work. Thus for example they call for programs to close the cybergap, and bring the internet to the downtrodden. They don’t understand that the downtrodden can’t use the internet, and aren’t interested.

Read the rest here: Fred On Everything: Fred Recommends Best Hotels in Mexico

[JJJJ]

The PROFESSOR. . . who has become boringly self-righteous . . . asked this: “Wait, before you go any further. Your race blew up a federal building in Oklahoma destroying thousands of lives. Your race enslaved and murdered millions of Jews. Your race enslaved millions of black africans. Your race…wait a second, did you personally do this? For someone who has made such “amazing” advancements in his life, why are you stuck on race?”

====================

Well, your majesty, I’m not “stuck on race.” I’m glued to the TV watching what’s happening in New Orleans and I’m asking “why?”

I scratched my head . . . I asked myself . . . has this ever happened before? Have victims of a natual disaster ever shot at their rescuers? What the fuck is going on in that place?

And why isn’t what’s happening THERE not happening ELSEWHERE?

So I thought about it, I listed all the reasons I could think of and I looked for differences. The only one I came up with was race. Not race in the sense that black people are born genetically endowed to be violent. Race in the sense that the black social group in NO has a black culture and that black culture has certain corrosive values within it, that caused this problem.

Now, why you can’t get it through your head that I’m not condemning the black race, is beyond me. I suspect you understand me quite well . . . you just have an integrity problem and can’t bring yourself to say the words: YES, THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE BLACK SOCIAL GROUP.

Interestingly, you also brought up the fact that clean-cut, young WHITE German boys massacred jews and Slavs. I’ve personally seen the atrocities of WHITE Serbians . . . who are some of the biggest murdering bastards on earth.

EVERY race kills. It’s the nature of the human animal . . . no argument there.

But that’s not the point. The discussion here is about black people . . . why they sank into anarchy . . . why they fill our jails . . . why they’re so violent.

Oh and by the way . . . let’s get our facts straight.

Yes, a WHITE man blew up the Federal Building in OK. But there is no TREND showing that white people are building-bombers. Nor is one white criminal out of a population of 233 million . . . a statistical anomaly.

But 13% of black people making up 65% of the prison population is a significant social abnormality . . . and if you don’t have the integrity to admit it and ask why . . . then shame on you.

Secondly, get something else straight. The white race employed slaves in the Atlantic colonies and the white race was responsible for the transportation of slaves across the Atlantic . . . but blacks CREATED the slave trade to begin with and slavery is still practiced in many parts of Africa today. What’s more, slavery was practiced in Africa long before the white man started to profit from it.

Now, I’m not excusing whites from the slavery issue. There was slavery in Greece and Rome (of all colors) and Europeans grew wealthy from slavery. No argument there.

But spare me . . . if you’re going to tell the story of black slavery from the 1600s to the 1800s . . . tell it right. History shows that both races were to blame.

[Professor_X]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
The PROFESSOR. . . who has become boringly self-righteous [/quote]

Hahahaha!

I’m self righteous? They do have mirrors in that retirement home, don’t they?

[BookerT]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:

BOOKERT . . . sorry but perhaps you could explain your first point a little more clearly.

It says to me that blacks are GETTING MURDERED in huge rates (mostly by other blacks ) and that blacks are 7 times more likely than whites to commit homicides . . .

Maybe I’m missing something, sir . . . how does that prove me wrong? Seems to prove my point.

As for Table 42 it only says that whites are victimized by people they know or don’t know at certain rates . . . and so are blacks.

Sorry, sir . . . again I fail to see the significance of that data.

BUT . . . I got a woodie over the fact that FINALLY, someone has the balls to start looking at hard numbers and is coming after me with actual numbers instead of liberal bullshit and philosophy.

Now that’s debate! Thank you . . . you’ve made my day! [/quote]

Table 42 states the number of violent crimes commited on white and black people and which race commited the crime. That’s why it is titled:

Percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime
and perceived race of offender.

3,283,030 crimes of violence were commited where the victims were white. 72.9% of the offenders were white. 556,140 violent crimes were committed towards blacks, 74.8% of those offenders were black. Simple math says that 21% of the violent crimes committed are commited by blacks.

The first link was used to make you think. What group makes up the “average” American? White people. As an average white person you are 6 times more likely to be killed by another white person then getting killed by a black person.(86/14)

But wait blacks are more violent then whites according to you, so how could the majority of murders and violent crimes committed on whites in America be committed by other whites?
Hmmmmmmm. Maybe it’s the fact that blacks tend to kill other blacks? I wonder why that is? It for sure can’t be that 30% of blacks are below the poverty line, while only 12-13% of whites are? That can’t be it, it escapes logic that poorer people may commit more crimes then rich people?

[randman]

[quote]ChrisPowers wrote:

This is an informal Internet forum with the goal of exchanging ideas, not writing rigorous proofs that will be pored over by others in the hopes of finding even one tiny hole which then invalidates every surrounding point. “Quick, look. He admitted that every word he types doesn’t have months of research to back it up. Clearly he has no ground to stand on.”
[/quote]

ChrisNoPowers:

Now you really didn’t think I wasn’t going to reply to your tirade now, did you? If you’re going to make blatantly racist statements such as “blacks are more violent”. You best be ready with some rigorous proof. And btw, I’m not finding tiny holes; there are huge, grand canyon leaps of logic from FBI crime statistics to “blacks are more violent” than other races. I’m not making outrageous claims, therefore I don’t need months of research to back up each word I write. I bet even you can understand your ridiculous statement here.

So finding patterns in someone’s posting style constitutes evidence that their points are invalid? Because that’s the “obsessive scrutiny” that I’m sure he was referring to. That’s a very bizarre contention to say the least. But then, that’s “exactly what [his] posts needed.” I see, so it’s okay for YOU to throw the rules of debate out the window, just nobody else.

Posting style has nothing to do with it. Although, JJJJ does use a certain posting style to come off as more knowledgeable and untouchable than everyone else who dares challenge his sacred beliefs. Obsessive scrutiny? Please he has a grab bag of random statistics he throws at you and then makes huge leaps of logic to back up his weak conclusions.

Here’s a good example of your inability to grasp a very, VERY simple concept. He says he doesn’t claim to know why blacks in America are so violent, and you can’t understand that? How is this backpedaling? The point was always that black Americans are violent, and that fact was proven. As much as you’ve been conditioned to become offended after reading that sentence, it remains a fact. Look at the fucking statistics.

I understand what he’s saying. You seem to not be able to grasph the VERY simple concept that his statement “blacks in America are so violent” is a basesless conclusion and simply racist. He backpedaled on many occassions going from “blacks [in general] are violent” to “blacks commit more murders [more specific]” to “poor blacks are more violent” even though he contradicted himself in another post saying poverty doesn’t factor in to it. His arguments are all over the place. It doesn’t remain a fact. I’ve looked at the fucking statistics. Why not insert a new brain in your head so you can more properly interpret statistics.

The notion that blacks in this country are violent is the thesis. The statistics are evidence to support that thesis. Really, you don’t understand that? What “fantastic leaps of logic” are required to go from the statistic that 12% of our population is responsible for 50% of our murders to the conclusion that that 12% is disproportionately violent? That’s a big leap for you? What’s a little leap then? Does the 12% have to commit 100% of the murders for it to be a little leap?

I understand the thesis. The statistics can not be classified as “evidence” to support this wild claim because it’s not evidence. Really, you don’t understand that? It takes “fantastic leaps of logic” when you look at one physical attribute “color” to describe the propensity for violence. Really simple minded thinking that you’ve obviously have bought into hook, line, and sinker. Says a lot about you.

So present the data. You want someone else to do your work for you? And even if you had data that showed whites lynched blacks more often than blacks lynched whites DURING THE SLAVE ERA, how does that prove anything? If you have a condition where blacks held white slaves during that same period and lynched them at a lower rate than the opposite, then we might be getting somewhere.

I’m not trying to prove whites are more violent or any other race is more violent. I simply showing contradictory statistics over history that shows if you do no thinking for yourself you may actually believe “whites” as a race are more violent. Really, ChrisNoPowers, can you understand the simple arguments being made here???

So you tried to show that the violent crime statistics given were faulty by proving that hate crime statistics were faulty? I don’t think so. You THOUGHT you were disproving the validity of the statistics you were shown, were embarrassed publicly when it came to light that you were debunking the wrong statistics, and now YOU’RE backpedaling to try and cover up that justifiably embarrassing mistake. Fine, but then don’t go calling the kettle black.

I’m glad you can read emotions over the Internet; embarrassed? Sorry. If that fulfills your little sick fantasies, then by all means. The intent and purpose was to show how the hallowed FBI statistics in this case “hate crime” statistics had a lot of holes in it namely not all agencies across the country even report them, or when they do they are selective when they do. And you think there is none of this same crap happening over pure violent crime statistics as well? Are you really this naive?

“Mommy, my vagina hurts. Can you rub my tummy?”

Chris, you really should get that vagina looked at.

You appear to be out of your league to me.

Well, your logical approach to these threads means your opinion means everything here

Your embarrassing attempts to show the fallibility of violent crime statistics by posting links to articles criticizing hate crime statistics is one example.

Embarrasing to you? Already addressed above.

Another is the fact that those very articles you referenced also happen to describe how black Americans commit far more hate crimes against whites than whites do against blacks.

Apparently you didn’t read those links very closely did you?

My, how humiliating that must have been for you. Did you not even bother to read that article?

Yes, did you? You must be humiliated with how you little you gathered from these links. I close my eyes as you crawl into the corner now. Hahaha!!!

[quote]
By the way, calling someone a “fruitcake” and an “asshole” does not constitute character assassination. It’s merely a personal attack. Trying to prove that someone is racist in order to damage their credibility in a society that so frowns on racism is a much better example of character assassination. But of course no one here is guilty of that.[/quote]

Oh, I am guilty 100%. Let me expand my statement. Call it character assasination or whatever, but your statements lead to an irrefutable conclusion JJJJ and ChrisNoPowers are big ole racist bastards!

[randman]

[quote]ChrisPowers wrote:
I believe the evidence bears that out.
[/quote]

That’s why your just as much of racist as JJJJ.

How that statement is racist is still beyond me. It’s a statement that describes the behavior of a segment of our population. Black leaders in American have ceded that point, so I don’t know why you’re clinging to it as if your very life depended on it.

Point to one example that “black leaders” have said “blacks are more violent”. You can do it so shut your yap.

Wow, that’s quite clever and original. You should really consider writing a sitcom.

I may. You and JJJJ will be the center of my satirical content. Very easy targets.

Maybe I’m starting to see the problem here. “Blacks are more violent” is a vague statement, admittedly. Try this one on for size: “Blacks in America are responsible for a much larger portion of violent crime in America than should be expected by their proportion of the population.” Are you willing to concede that the above is true?

To me, the statement “Blacks in America are more violent than other races in America” easily follows, and I see nothing racist in that statement. It is a statement of fact, unless you don’t believe that committing 400% of the expected amount of violent crime by population justifies the description “violent”.

What DOES NOT follow is that “ALL blacks in America are violent” or “Blacks in America are BORN with a propensity for violence.” Those statements are not proven by the above statistics.

I’m not willing to make the statement “Blacks in America are responsible for a much larger portion of violent crime in America than should be expected by their proportion of the population.” Because you are still focusing one factor to try and describe the reason for violent behavior. You just don’t get it, do you?

You are just as much as racist as JJJJ when you agree that “Blacks in America are more violent than other races in America”. It is not a statement of fact, even if you say so.

You know it’s bullshit because you’ve already decided it was bullshit? Or because you followed his reasoning and don’t believe it to be valid? Because I’ll be damned if it doesn’t sound like the former.

You haven’t been reading these threads very closely. Multiple people, including myself, have picked apart his arguments. He basically says the same thing over and over again. FBI crime statistics show blacks commit more murders. Therefore, blakcs are more violent. 98% of the people are calling bullshit on this and have shown why. Obviously you can’t see the same gaps in logic so I leave the conclusions of why to you.

Who said I didn’t like it? You can call me names all you like. You apparantly think it makes you seem tough and like you don’t take any shit, but really you just come off as an insecure child.

Yes, whereas you are the mature adult on this thread. You made a funny. You’ve been guilty of the same crimes so spare me.

You’re anonymous to me, and I am to you. We will never meet face to face,

Thank god for that.

so don’t put on any pretenses that you’re challenging me, because your slander is hollow and your baiting is a waste of effort.***

Apparently you’ve taken the bait with your worthless posts.

I see, so when I said, “nobody appreciates”, you took that to mean that I was trying to speak for EVERYONE in the world. Gee whiz, you got me. I don’t speak for the whole world. What I did was use a common expression to convey that you don’t speak for ME. What YOU did was to consider refraining from posting further for the good of T-Nation, but then made a point to clarify that you’ll be keeping your eye on JJJJ to “put him in his place”. My, how gallant of you! I can see how what I wrote is tantamount to your masturbatory, self-important vow to right wrongs on these forums.

Man, you should be a poet. That was actually pretty good. It looks like I’m going to need to keep an eye on you since your adding to this racist bullshit. I am pretty important, aren’t I?

No, I’m accusing you of being full of yourself and smugly trying to speak on behalf of others.

Actually, there have been a majority of posters with the same message as me. Apparently you reading comprehension skills are not that good.

That’s correct, no one did. And I don’t have to wait for someone to ask for it, either. That is the purpose of an Internet discussion forum.

OK.

See the comment above marked ***. I’m so very terrified of your badass attitude.

I can feel it from here but I wasn’t going to say anything.

All this thread does is AGAIN prove my point that we’ve become so fucking backwards from politically correct BULLSHIT being shoveled down our fucking throats all the god damn time that it’s actually gotten to the point that it’s become “racist” to state a motherfucking FACT.

Do you think that when you add swears and capital letters that all of a sudden you’ve made a point. ChrisNoPowers, I’m not getting under you skin, am I?

I’m debating. I don’t know what the hell you’re doing. Between patting yourself on the back and posturing from behind a keyboard in cyberspace, I see very little room for any debating on your part.

Is that what your calling your rants. You even admitted to ranting. This isn’t debating. I caught you in a fib. Don’t be embarrased. I won’t tell anyone.

And in the middle of a hissy fit rant of your own, peppered with name-calling and petty posturing, you’re in a very odd position to be accusing others of emotional immaturity.

Challenging racist bullshit statements = hissy fit? My that’s a stretch but nice try.

Unbelievable. What kind of lame ass empty bullshit is “skin color ain’t one of them?” Who here has ever argued that skin color causes violent behavior? This is the same misdirection bullshit that people have been pulling for this entire thread. You apparantly NEED to believe that this is the argument, because you don’t seem willing to argue anything else.

When you say “blacks are more violent” this is in fact exactly what your saying. Due to skin color, your more apt to be violent. Think! Chris. Think!

I didn’t ask for reasons why violent behavior happens. I asked, in light of the above statistics, how you can still argue that blacks are not more violent than other races in this country? That’s what the data shows. The data draws no conclusions. YOU’RE drawing the conclusions that you’re attempting to disprove.

No, your drawing conclusions by relying one dimensional data to make your assertions. Think!

The data shows that the black “race” as it’s defined in these FBI studies is exceedingly more violent than other races. You and others seem unwilling to simply ADMIT that this is the case, so how can we or anyone in this country ever expect to move toward REMEDYING that problem, when we can’t even agree there is one?

Now, your statements are just as bad as JJJJ’s. Once again, very bigoted. The black race is more violent than other races. You’re relying on one dimensional data to make this assertion. Expand the mind, Chris, Expand the mind.

I can’t believe that after all this bullshit, we’re back to where we started.

I know. You guys just don’t get it, do you?

So the racist statements begin with that statement of fact.

Yes, by saying that “blacks are more violent is a fact”. Extremely racist, blatanly racist, pure racism at its finest.

Speaking of the poor reading comprehension skills that you and others on this site are so quick to accuse others of, maybe you can tell me how the phrase “blacks are more violent” implies that skin color predisposes one to more violence?

Already explained multiple times. I don’t think repeating for the 50th time in various formats is going to get through to you.

[quote]
Okay, so after all that, a quick, totally ambiguous concession with absolutely no meat on it (otherwise people might think you’re racist, by God), followed by one more quick personal attack for good measure.

Thank you for that lesson in debate. I learned so much.[/quote]

You’re welcome!

[JJJJ]

BOOKERT . . . do me a favor. Please go to the Table you are refering to. Scroll up to the very top of the page and tell me what the table number is. I don’t have a Table 42 and the index on the left of the tables doesn’t appear to be working. I still have no idea what you’re looking at.

As to your other points . . . .

YOU SAID: The first link was used to make you think. What group makes up the “average” American? White people. As an average white person you are 6 times more likely to be killed by another white person then getting killed by a black person.(86/14)/////

I SAY: Yes. I agree. Now, please go to the Annual Crime Reports ( http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm ). Once there, you can go to tables that show you victim and killer, each by race.

Whites kill more whites, blacks kill more blacks.

The important points however, are

1. Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks.

2. Blacks kill in HUGE numbers considering their percentage of population. 13% of the population ususally kills 50% of the people murdered. Would you not agree that’s a significant statistic?

Your own material says "blacks were SEVEN TIMES MORE LIKELY to commit homicides than whites. (Sorry, are you arguing for me or against me?)

YOU ALSO SAY: But wait blacks are more violent then whites according to you, so how could the majority of murders and violent crimes committed on whites in America be committed by other whites?
/////

I SAY . . . I’ll go real slow here and explain it to you . . . .

Every year, there are a number of people murdered in this country. If you go to the link above and look at murders by victim and race, you’ll see that around 3600 whites and 3100 blacks are murdered each year.

Every year . . . like clockwork . . . blacks are responsible for half the murders in this country.

Now, yes, a lot of their victims are black . . . are you arguing that killing blacks is less heinous?

You also play the poverty card . . . “blacks kill more blacks and poor people kill more poor people.”

I understand why, after growing up under 50 years of liberalism, you might think that. But here’s the problem with that theory.

There are 9 million poor blacks . . . 9 million poor Hispanics and 20 million poor whites in this country. If your theory was correct, then you would expect whites to kill 50% of all people, and Hispanics and blacks to kill the rest. That would be NORMAL based on the distribution of poor.

But that’s not even remotely the case.

In fact, if you want to insist that the poor in this country do most of the killing . . . then poor Hispanics kill almost no one . . . white poor kill at their expected rates and black poor kill at DOUBLE their expected rate.

You STILL have a huge problem.

[JJJJ]

MR POWERS . . . my suggestion . . . give up.

This is not a fair playing field. My recommendation to you and any who support the idea that there’s a problem in the black community . . . stop trying to convince anyone . . . just stick to trying to clarify and expand. That’s what I’m doing.

[JJJJ]

RANDMAN SAID: I’m not willing to make the statement “Blacks in America are responsible for a much larger portion of violent crime in America than should be expected by their proportion of the population.” Because you are still focusing one factor to try and describe the reason for violent behavior. You just don’t get it, do you?///////

Can someone . . . other than Randman himself . . . please explain what he means? I’m serious . . . somebody, anybody . . . please decipher this cryptic remark.

Blacks in America make up 13% of the population . . . yet they commit 50% of the murders. The observation is that a 13% segment should commit 13% of the murders . . . yet blacks commit FOUR TIMES that amount . . . and Randman is afraid to concede that point.

The reason he gives: “Because you are still focusing one factor to try and describe the reason for violent behavior.”

What “one factor” does he mean? Race? The government statistics draw the comparison between victim and offender, I’m merely reading the numbers to you.

What does he mean? I’m serious folks . . . I don’t care about the original subject of the thread. Forget who’s right or who’s wrong. At this point I’m just trying to understand the individual’s motivations.

Can someone please elaborate?

[WMD]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
WMD . . . well, my “dubious statistics” have sure kicked your ass.

Any jackass can say “your stats prove nothing because you’re ignoring other factors.”

OK . . . I presented my analysis. Let’s see yours. YOU explain my stats. YOU present a rational argument that explains black crime. I’ve answered every question and criticism as best as I could . . .

All I see you doing is hiding in the shadows and ackowledging that you don’t have the mental energy and flexibility to deal with a tough question.

And no . . . Hispanics don’t “fill the jails.” Blacks do . . . a 13% black population fiils up 65% of the jails.

But in your la-la land, that’s not enough to say there’s a problem, right? We need to study the issue some more . . . do more “multi-variate regression analysis” . . . we need to look at other factors . . . right?

Intellectual masturbation, buddy. If the levels of black crime in America today aren’t enough to convice you that THERE’S A FUCKING PROBLEM IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY . . . then you’re an intellectually lazy bastard who will never be convinced by ANYTHING.

If you’re not willing to ENGAGE . . . don’t waste out time.
[/quote]

It seems to me that you are an expert on intellectual masturbation.

I haven’t noticed my ass getting kicked. You need to work out more.

I place precious little value on statistics when applied to human beings, because they don’t tell the whole story and they are so subject to manipulation by people like you who have a specific agenda. Like I said previously, humans are too complex to be reduced to nothing more than numbers on a page.

I never said hispanics fill the jails. I said there are plenty of them in jail. Please attempt to quote me accurately.

If I were hiding why would I even bother posting? More faulty logic. You do project alot don’t you? Perhaps you should have that looked at.

I never said there wasn’t a problem. I just don’t agree that the problem is race specific. I see it as a problem endemic to our whole society, spanning all races. Your problem seems to be one of comprehension.

Since you seem to be having a hard time with the concept, let me explain to you once again that you do not get to set the rules of engagement.

You have a real problem with blacks. I don’t. I’m sorry your life experiences have led you to be a bigot.

As far as mental energy and flexibility goes, well I sure got you in a snit, didn’t I? And I didn’t even muss my hair.

WMD

WMD

[WMD]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
MR POWERS . . . my suggestion . . . give up.

This is not a fair playing field. My recommendation to you and any who support the idea that there’s a problem in the black community . . . stop trying to convince anyone . . . just stick to trying to clarify and expand. That’s what I’m doing.

[/quote]

Yes, please give up and crawl back into your troll cave.

You have clarified very nicely that you are a racist. You can relax about that.

You started this whole thing so you must have known that T-Nation is populated by passionate, intelligent people who know the smell of bullshit when it wafts in on the breeze.

If you can’t stand the heat…

WMD

[lothario1132]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
MR POWERS . . . my suggestion . . . give up.

This is not a fair playing field. My recommendation to you and any who support the idea that there’s a problem in the black community . . . stop trying to convince anyone . . . just stick to trying to clarify and expand. That’s what I’m doing.
[/quote]

There’s a problem in the ghetto.

No one is disputing that, because it is an objective observation. Crime is higher in the ghetto, etc. The numbers bear this out. But your problem is that you have guessed very poorly at “why”.

Next time, don’t assume that it’s race.

This is not brain surgery, it’s pretty much common sense. Violence, crime, poverty… these are all complex problems. When somebody says “well, there are a lot of BLACK people involved”, it doesn’t help… AT ALL. That is the kind of narrow thinking which magnifies negative racial tension, when instead we should be celebrating our differences and learning from each other.

The only way I can see for you to atone for your shortsighted and heartless posts in this thread is to go out and try some soul food. Go buy a Luther Vandross CD, and watch the Jeffersons on DVD. You better be able to sing the Jeffersons theme song when you get back to us.

“Fish don’t fry in the kitchen…
Beans don’t burn on the grill…
Took a whole lotta tryin’
Just to get up that hill…”

You owe everybody here for this bullshit thread, and the righteous indignation you have caused.

PS Put hot sauce on the collard greens… they kick ass that way. Take care.

[Anabolic_AZN]

ok. Now to sergent major jjjj.

This is just a little of the facts that i have reseached at my base.

now im not takeing anyones side here. i just want to state that this stuff happens everywhere not just in poor towns.

I am a cop in the Air Force. now i have research from our blotters that the controle desk writes everyday. I went about 6m back and took a look to see what i could find. now the numbers i found was that there where 28 domestics on base houseing. 20 out of that 28 where black familys. and also 1 rape that was a black male rapeing a white woman.

now dont get me wrong. i know i am dealing with a different kind of person in the millitary. a person with a little more respect and disaplin.

but what i am saying is. and i think that is what this thread was originaly all about is how to fix it.

that if this stuff happens on a millitary instalation where food is payed for and there is no electric bill or water bill. just what u have to pay for like a car. then what hope does any of the poor towns and cityes have to ever better them selves.

now its not just a black thing dont get me wrong. that was just over 6m. I didnt have the time to reserch deeper. i will save that for another day. but im almost positive that if i was to go back the whole year it would almost be even.

[orion]

“There is no distinctly native American criminal class…save Congress” - Mark Twain

[BookerT]

Table 42 is table 42 or page 30 of 52 of
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0302.pdf

Which can be found on

Search Publications

under victims and offenders 2003.

Please provide the specific table you are getting your info from and not just the link to a general page.(Sorry if I missed this previously posted link)

Because the table I am referencing from the Department of Justice seems to contradict your assertions.

Once that is cleared up I will address your other points.

[JD818]

J is correct about Blacks committing a disproportionate amount of crime for their representation as a population. The murder and rape rates of non-U.S. black populations is even more staggering than the statistics accumulated by our Department of Justice. South Africa, per capita, pretty much leads the world in rape and murder.

If you aren’t a conspiracy fan who believes in UFOs, you can correlate the extremely HIV rates in Black regions to their high sexual promiscuity and prevalence of rape. The situation in subsaharan Africa is absolutely chaotic and deplorable. The situations in the Caribbean and Latin America with a Black majority are not much different. There is a large correlation between an increase of subsaharan Negroes and crime - irrefutable facts from INTERPOL, international statistics, and government surveys.

Blacks in the U.S. are 7 times more likely to murder than Whites, even though they comprise about 13% of the population. The rape and violent attacks are usually double that at least. Black males are 14 times more likely to be HIV+ than heterosexual White males. Involing interracial crimes, such as assault, rape, and murder, 90% of the victims are White. Whites still constitute a “majority” in this country (for a few more decades) and are underrepresented in crime compared to the Black minority.

Are you going to also blame the increase of “infant rape,” a superstitious practice in South Africa believed to cure HIV, on poverty as well?

Blaming poverty or “the man” every time is easily refutable, and is often putting the cart before the horse. A current example is the tsunami disaster that occured in southeast Asia. Around 230,000 people perished or ended up missing, with widespread devastation on a larger scale than New Orleans. Also remember that southeast Asians have some of the most abhorrent poverty in the world, and make only a fraction of what “poor blacks” in Louisiana make. Yet, not one tourist was mugged. No tourists were evacuated in fear of the native population harming them. There were no rapes, muggings, murders, assaults, looting, etc. If there were any incidences, they were miniscule if not non-existent. One of the poorest regions of the world acted more civilized in a worse disaster.

I feel Blacks have a genetic predisposition to commit more hostile acts on an average scale. Not saying all of the reasons are biological, but all of them certainly aren’t environmental. On average in subsaharan Africa they have more testosterone and muscularity, more chaotic social and family structures, and a lack of civilization. If you want to see the measure of Black self-rule, take a visit to Detroit, DC, Haiti, or South Africa. Better yet, take a trip to Liberia, a nation created by repatriated Black slaves over a century and a half ago.

On average their inability for lack of restraint, incapability to delay gratification, and lack of complex social structure cannot all be blamed on “poverty” and deprived “socioeconomic” status.

Many Blacks are just incapable of governing themselves without ensuing chaos and anarchy. Zimbabwe is another good example -once the breadbasket of Africa, now is starving from famine and poverty, much like Haiti.

The former colonies in Asia, after given independence, prospered incredibly while the ones in Africa stagnated and fell into decline. Modern Europeans weren’t the only ones who tried to advance subsahara - the Classical civilizations tried it, and the Islamic Arabs tried as well - they all failed.

Denying reality is very unhealthy, and is the sign of a degenerate and naive society that is obsessed with “equality” and “tolerance.” The facts speak for themselves. If you are so infatuated with denying reality and embracing multicultural “harmony” despite its horrendous consequences, I’ll buy you your plane tickets to Detroit or Port-au-Prince.

[JJJJ]

Da_NU_1

I had not intended to post anymore on this thread but, I can’t ignore a military person.

However, “HARRUMPH!” . . . it’s not sergeant major . . . it’s COLONEL to you Airman . . . and please stand at Attention when addressing me. OK, that’s enough, At Ease. Fuck it, I’m retired. Relax. Pop open a beer. You’re among friends.

I understand exactly what you’re saying.

I started out enlisted in the days when we lived in open-air barracks. Black soldiers terrorized the white soldiers then and mostly still do today. When the sergeants and officers went home at night, the place turned into a zoo.

As an officer, in my first platoon, every single soldier Chaptered out of the Army was black. Every single soldier courts-martialed was black. The same thing happened in Germany, Korea, Honduras, Bosnia, Kuwait and Iraq . . . good units and bad units. Always the same trend. Blacks are disproportionally represented in military criminal statistics . . . although, to be fair . . . blacks are disproportionally represented in the military. But still, it jumps out at you who’s breaking the law and who isn’t.

Now that I’m retired and living outside a large Army base, I read the papers . . . and the trend is the same here. Rapes, robberies and murders . . . primarily in the black areas or committed by black people.

So it baffles me how some of these folks can be so blind to the problem. I think it’s the difference between those who just talk the talk and those of us who have walked the walk.

I want to thank you, Airman, not only for having the guts to share what’s likely to be an unpopular statement . . . but for serving your Nation.

I’m proud of you. Best of luck to you! God bless.

[JJJJ]

[quote]orion wrote:
“There is no distinctly native American criminal class…save Congress” - Mark Twain[/quote]

Another exception . . . maybe I was too quick on the draw . . . Orion, you’re another one who has done great work in trying to prove me wrong and deserves the courtesy of a response.

I partially disagree, although in fairness to Mr Clemens . . . he did not have to deal with the “feral liberals” we have among us today. He only had Congress to worry about.

I feel that rampant, irresponsible, reality-denying liberalism, as practiced in the US today . . . and as seen in this thread . . . is responsible for empowering more criminal behavior than the Colombian Cartel, the Scilian Mafia, the various Mexican cartels and the Russian Mafia all put together.

Our liberal pack on this thread is not only irresponsible but hypocritical . . . I wonder how many of these people who deny my contention that blacks are more violent would be willing to go spend the weekend in a black ghetto and send their little girls to school on Monday to the local all-black elementary school?

[randman]

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
RANDMAN SAID: I’m not willing to make the statement “Blacks in America are responsible for a much larger portion of violent crime in America than should be expected by their proportion of the population.” Because you are still focusing one factor to try and describe the reason for violent behavior. You just don’t get it, do you?///////

Can someone . . . other than Randman himself . . . please explain what he means? I’m serious . . . somebody, anybody . . . please decipher this cryptic remark.

Blacks in America make up 13% of the population . . . yet they commit 50% of the murders. The observation is that a 13% segment should commit 13% of the murders . . . yet blacks commit FOUR TIMES that amount . . . and Randman is afraid to concede that point.

The reason he gives: “Because you are still focusing one factor to try and describe the reason for violent behavior.”

What “one factor” does he mean? Race? The government statistics draw the comparison between victim and offender, I’m merely reading the numbers to you.

What does he mean? I’m serious folks . . . I don’t care about the original subject of the thread. Forget who’s right or who’s wrong. At this point I’m just trying to understand the individual’s motivations.

Can someone please elaborate?[/quote]

If you haven’t understood the various explanations by multiple posters by now. You’ll never get it.

Your looking at color statistics to describe violence. One factor. That’s like saying “everyone with a mole on their ass appears to be more violent based on statistics”. Is it really becuase they have a mole on their ass? My motivation is clear. You, among a few others on this board, are racist. I am poking holes in your very weak arguments. That is my motivation.

You are condeming a race of people to violence based on one-dimensional data. You are looking at color as the explanation for the violence. Can someone explain to me why JJJJ is so obstinate and dense that he can’t see these simple explanations when 98% of the posters on this board do understand it? Really, forget about the argument? Why can’t he see this? Someone explain this to me. And seriously folks, what is the individual’s motivation for his racially-biased and callous statements on T-Nation?

[JJJJ]

[quote]BookerT wrote:
Table 42 is table 42 or page 30 of 52 of
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0302.pdf

Which can be found on

Search Publications

under victims and offenders 2003.

Please provide the specific table you are getting your info from and not just the link to a general page.(Sorry if I missed this previously posted link)

Because the table I am referencing from the Department of Justice seems to contradict your assertions.

Once that is cleared up I will address your other points.
[/quote]

BOOKERT . . . I am unable to access the table you mention. My “tables” go from Table 40 to 43a with nothing in between.

Doesn’t matter. I WILL ACCEPT whatever umbers you want to throw at me as FACT. Please make your point again and I will respond as quickly and completely as I can.

There is a wide body (and slowly growing body) of research on black criminality. I have relied on various readings to form my conclusions.

For the specifc purpose of responding to certain people on this thread, I used MURDER statistics kept by the Federal government (specifically the FBI). I have looked at stats categorized by race. The racial definitions used by the FBI are the same used by the Census Bureau. You can find these stats at: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

One there, just pick a year.

Take 2003, for example. Click on that year. Once there look down and find the tables on murder. Look for the one that compares VICTIM AND PREPRETATOR BY RACE.

You can then do the same thing for other years. The tables are all called the same thing, as I remember.

Now, why MURDER?

Because murder is the #1 crime category used by most researchers. Aggravated assaults (to include rape) and property crimes are often inexact. They’re often under-reported or unsolved. It’s also very hard to define what a “rape” is or an “assault” or even a “robbery” or “burglary.”

But murder . . . well, if the fucker has stopped breathing and the Coroner or other official calls it something other than natural death, you have a clear-cut statistical category.

Let me try to save some time. If your point is that WHITES commit more crime per year, I’ll take your word that’s true. There are 7 white people for every black person in this country.

If your point is that WHITE people are usually made victims by WHITE people, I’ll ake your word that’s true.

Both of the above are expected behavior
patterns given the data.

The anomalies exist when you start comparing rates in those categories that are hard numbers . . . things like MURDER and NUMBER OF PRISON INMATES.

That’s where you begin to find behavior patterns like 13% of blacks make up 65% of the prison population. 13% are responsible for 50% of murders. Blacks are 7 times more likely to kill than whites. etc

Those are the type of abnormal statistics that require an explanation.