The only issue with your assumption is that you are disregarding the possibility even with higher LH your testosterone would remain on the low end.
So in effect you can’t really rule out testicular failure to some degree without testing this.
Your current protocol is no good, you will have to change that. If the doctor will not listen then either find another one, self treat or continue as you are.
[/quote]
I suppose - although i did have a semen analysis that returned results that were within normal range. This was prior to a significant length of test patch applications… but while on clomid for a few weeks.
Other than that and FSH/LH/T serum values- how can they measure testicular function?
One thing that does jump out at me is that when my initial results showed a 244 total testosterone value - my FREE test was significantly lower in comparison. Anything there?
Your body seems to just not want you to make too much T (although mid 400’s is not THAT low). This is usually due to some other disease state present in the body.
Your thyroid hormones look a bit weird. I would have them rechekced with the full panel that iroc recommended. Be sure to get antibodies.
Kidney/liver tests normal?
Your E2 is definitely too high. I would take 0.25 mg adex EOD to see if that improves your condition. The presence of gyno supports this.
If you want to go with the T route, you are welcome to do so but make sure you get on a good sensical protocol.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Your body seems to just not want you to make too much T (although mid 400’s is not THAT low). This is usually due to some other disease state present in the body.
Your thyroid hormones look a bit weird. I would have them rechekced with the full panel that iroc recommended. Be sure to get antibodies.
Kidney/liver tests normal?
Your E2 is definitely too high. I would take 0.25 mg adex EOD to see if that improves your condition. The presence of gyno supports this.
If you want to go with the T route, you are welcome to do so but make sure you get on a good sensical protocol.[/quote]
I’m beginning to think that maybe I should trial off of exogenous T and continue arimidex @ .25mg eod. If a piddly 4mg patch brings me up to 460/500 then maybe being on TRT is not the best place for me to be.
The problem is that I can’t afford to deal with low T symptoms at this time of my life - I’m transitioning careers and my image + energy + optimism is key for me to compete in this market. And that’s where low T has hit me the hardest.
By the way… I can only narrow it down to this… can low testosterone affect stamina in the sack? I’ve never in my life had an issue with this but since my symptoms developed it’s been an issue. it’s been intriguing and embarrassing - mostly the latter. No problem getting it up or keeping it up until climax - but it is ridiculous how quickly it comes now. I researched for studies on this phenomenon… but came up with nada.
What T levels should I be shooting for on TRT? - I’m lost now.
If I can’t sustain high average T levels on TRT - I don’t know what the point is of being on it. On the other hand - I believe I have been way underdosed by being given 4mg patches or 100mg biweekly…
On the other hand, I really don’t want to be on TRT for the rest of my life. :Lost:
But what I really want to know… is why this would happen now out of the blue? There has to be an underlying cause.
I imagine that a past Hx of steroid & HGH/T4 abuse could cause some of my S/Sx but, hypothetically speaking, if I hadn’t abused those drugs for years prior to the onset of symptoms - why would they occur at random?
[quote]Q4more wrote:
Maybe Clomid @ 25 - 50mg every day with Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day…
No Testosterone.[/quote]
You could try the clomid or use nolva as a test to see if your nuts respond and to rule out primary.
50mg daily clomid is overkill imo from my experience. 25mg should be enough and realistically you could get away with 12.5mg if you plan to take it for 2 months or so.
Nolvadex you could probably take 10mg daily.
Keep and eye on e2 during the course and if needed get an AI because you might see a dramatic rise in e2! best to have it on hand than chase it when you need it.
Get that thyroid checked with those comprehensive tests listed.
You could try the clomid or use nolva as a test to see if your nuts respond and to rule out primary.
50mg daily clomid is overkill imo from my experience. 25mg should be enough and realistically you could get away with 12.5mg if you plan to take it for 2 months or so.
Nolvadex you could probably take 10mg daily.
Keep and eye on e2 during the course and if needed get an AI because you might see a dramatic rise in e2! best to have it on hand than chase it when you need it.
Get that thyroid checked with those comprehensive tests listed.
[/quote]
I’ve actually done this protocol already… with Clomid @ 25mg/day.
This period reflects my T levels of 411 / 460 and E2 levels of 49 / 55 respectively.
(I read in an Endo textbook that Clomid will stimulate T levels to rise along with E2 levels… but also that E2 levels do not indicate the same anomaly of high E2 values w/o clomid supplementation. I can find the source if need be.)
The problem is that I really don’t think that this protocol will give me the quality of life I had before this BS came to surface. I never had my T levels tested prior to these symptoms - so I have no idea what my baseline is - but I really doubt it was in the 400’s. I’d assume it was in the 800’s -900’s due to my ability to build muscle and low body fat % preceding the current events.
You could try the clomid or use nolva as a test to see if your nuts respond and to rule out primary.
50mg daily clomid is overkill imo from my experience. 25mg should be enough and realistically you could get away with 12.5mg if you plan to take it for 2 months or so.
Nolvadex you could probably take 10mg daily.
Keep and eye on e2 during the course and if needed get an AI because you might see a dramatic rise in e2! best to have it on hand than chase it when you need it.
Get that thyroid checked with those comprehensive tests listed.
[/quote]
I’ve actually done this protocol already… with Clomid @ 25mg/day.
This period reflect my T levels of 411 / 460 and E2 levels of 49 / 55 respectively.
The problem is that I really don’t think that this protocol will give me the quality of life I had before this BS came to surface. I never had my T levels tested prior to Sx - so I have no idea what my baseline is - but I really doubt it was in the 400’s. I’d bet it was in the 800’s -900’s due to my ability to pack on muscle and low body fat % preceding the current events.
[/quote]
Hmm so you did the clomid and only got to levels of mid 400 after 2 months?
What was your LH level at?
Was this clomid from a legit source? I guess I would have expected a better response if your nuts are able to produce.
Hmm so you did the clomid and only got to levels of mid 400 after 2 months?
What was your LH level at?
Was this clomid from a legit source? I guess I would have expected a better response if your nuts are able to produce.
Your best bet is to look into your thyroid first.
[/quote]
I don’t know how legit the source was - wasn’t from a local pharmacy.
EDIT: I was wrong. I had LH labs drawn around a month after clomid supplementation:
LUTROPIN 2.7 mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
and my most recent ones early this month were:
LUTROPIN 3.4 mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
The only thyroid labs I had drawn resulted in:
THYROTROPIN 1.06 uU/ml 0.4-6
THYROXINE.FREE 10.9 pmol/L 7.5-21.0
This was prior to TRT. They fall w/in normal limits. What do you see that’s odd about them?
Also - why are my Thyroid values of such concern? I understand that they have something to do with my hypothalamus / pituitary function since the same regions also secrete FSH / LH … but I don’t understand why thyroid function would result in hypogonadism.
I’ve gotta ask… is it possible for symptoms OF THIS EXTENT being a result of High stress, Lack of sleep, and Poor nutrition (eating much less than normal). I think that school has put me in continuous stress state.
Can these factors really alter someones physiology to such an extent. (I can understand that diet may - but to grow fat instead of slim makes it difficult for me to grasp).
Prior to all these symptoms happening… (Over a 6 - 8 month period) I was dropping weight most likely due to dietary considerations of inadequate food intake. I went from 200 - 185 - 178.
Now I’m up to 207 and my muscle is gradually bailing out on me and being replaced by fat. I can barely fit my damn clothes properly now.
Hmm so you did the clomid and only got to levels of mid 400 after 2 months?
What was your LH level at?
Was this clomid from a legit source? I guess I would have expected a better response if your nuts are able to produce.
Your best bet is to look into your thyroid first.
[/quote]
I don’t know how legit the source was - wasn’t from a local pharmacy.
EDIT: I was wrong. I had LH labs drawn around a month after clomid supplementation:
LUTROPIN 2.7 mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
and my most recent ones early this month were:
LUTROPIN 3.4 mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
The only thyroid labs I had drawn resulted in:
THYROTROPIN 1.06 uU/ml 0.4-6
THYROXINE.FREE 10.9 pmol/L 7.5-21.0
This was prior to TRT. They fall w/in normal limits. What do you see that’s odd about them?
Also - why are my Thyroid values of such concern? I understand that they have something to do with my hypothalamus / pituitary function since the same regions also secrete FSH / LH … but I don’t understand why thyroid function would result in hypogonadism.
[/quote]
Well I am not sure how long the effects last from clomid in regards to elevated lh fsh. But there is a chance your source gave you some bunk clomid. Well that is a possibility I see.
Your thyroid is odd in the sense that tsh is around 1 but your ft4 level is far from optimal. But we don’t know what ft3 looks like and you should get the antibodies test to rule out autoimmune disease.
hypothyroidism can also cause lower test levels. This has been talked about in various articles.
[quote]Q4more wrote:
I’ve gotta ask… is it possible for symptoms OF THIS EXTENT being a result of High stress, Lack of sleep, and Poor nutrition (eating much less than normal). I think that school has put me in continuous stress state.
Can these factors really alter someones physiology to such an extent. (I can understand that diet may - but to grow fat instead of slim makes it difficult for me to grasp).
Prior to all these symptoms happening… (Over a 6 - 8 month period) I was dropping weight most likely due to dietary considerations of inadequate food intake. I went from 200 - 185 - 178.
Now I’m up to 207 and my muscle is gradually bailing out on me and being replaced by fat. I can barely fit my damn clothes properly now.[/quote]
sure can get cortisol checked, think this was mentioned on previous post.
Well I am not sure how long the effects last from clomid from clomid in regards to elevated lh fsh. But there is a chance your source gave you some bunk clomid. Well that is a possibility I see.
Your thyroid is odd in the sense that tsh is around 1 but your ft4 level is far from optimal. But we don’t know what ft3 looks like and you should get the antibodies test to rule out autoimmune disease.
hypothyroidism can also cause lower test levels. This has been talked about in various articles.[/quote]
Hypothetically speaking, I wonder how likely it is that supplementing T4 off & on for 1 -2 years while taking HGH would cause permanent suppression of T4 production?