23 Year Old on TRT Needing Advice

Hello everyone! This is my first post. I am 23 years old and would like to give you a brief synopsis of what led me to TRT. I used prohormones at the age of 21 for a 3 month period (did not use HCG/clomid or any other ancillary drugs) and essentially shrank my testicles and severely dampened my HPTA. It was the worst mistake of my life and I have no one to blame but myself. I was never the same after that. Low libido, began losing muscle mass, gaining fat (even though diet did not change) Depressed, etc. Working out did not help, no matter how hard I pushed myself. My body literally began deteriorating.

I had my GP do a blood test to check my testosterone, free and total. Here are the results:

01/03/2012 4:00PM
Result Flag Range
Testosterone, Free 5.0 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 308 Low 348-1197
LH 7.7 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.9 1.5-12.4
Prolactin 15.4 High 4.0-15.2
Estradiol 23.7 7.6-42.6
SHBG 33.7 16.5-55.9
TSH 3.360 0.450-4.50

03/06/2012
Vit. D, 25-Hydroxy 109.0 High 30.0-100.0
DHEA-Sulfate 290.5 211.0-492

I ended up seeing another doctor because the current one was a complete moron and she told me she didn’t think it meant anything and I was fine. I even went to see an endocrinologist and she also said there was nothing wrong with me.

So, this other Naturopathic doctor told me had never seen a young male patient with low testosterone levels like mine. He had me do one final blood test in the morning. Here are the results:

07/09/2012 9:00AM

Testosterone, Free 4.2 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 369 348-1197
Prolactin 12.5 4.0-15.2
Cholesterol, Total 152 100-199
HDL 61 >39
LDL 83 0-99
Triglycerides 39 0-149

He put me on Testosterone Cypionate 0.5ml (100mg) per week. I split that in half and did 2 shots per week. He didn’t know/did not prescribe HCG or anastrozole. I was desperate and foolishly believed that it would work solo.

10/08/2012

Testosterone, Free 7.2 Low 9.3-26.5

Here’s where I open up to you guys. This was about a week after a 50mg dose, so it does not accurately reflect a peak number. As far as physical changes. It was helping a bit in the gym. Now here is where I get foolish. He upped my script to 150mg per week and I had them check my estradiol level 3 days after I injected (trying to get anastrozole script). Estradiol came in at 35.9. Doc says in range and not a problem.

So, at this point I am 4 months in my TRT therapy and I notice a shift in my body composition. Muscle gain stopped and fat gain increased suddenly. I freaked out. My testicles had shrank to maybe 30% of their original size and pulled up tight in the scrotum and I was feeling extremely depressed. I did not get bloodwork (stupid I know). Could have most likely been low DHEA and Pregnenolone or thyroid dysfunction. No insurance at the time and was expensive for me.

He referred me to another Naturopathic doctor. I met her and told her how I was feeling and she scripted me HCG in the hopes my testicle size would recover. They did recover a good amount, but nothing like before I had ever used steroids. Much better though. I had researched much about thyroid hormones and adrenal gland issues at this point. I was on HCG 250 IU twice per week and taking iron 65mg tablets daily. I stopped the T-cyp. injections in mid-November. I tested the following in January (Have insurance now through job):

01/16/2013

Cortisol-AM 18.3 6.2-19.4
Cortisol-PM 9.1 2.3-11.9
Ferritin 30 30-400
Iron Saturation 68 High 15-55
UIBC 102 Low 150-375
TIBC 322 250-450
Vit. B12 1131 High 211-946
Folic Acid >19.9 >3.0
Testosterone, Free 5.4 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 408 348-1197
TSH 3.980 0.45-4.50
Free T4 1.47 0.82-1.77
Free T3 2.8 2.0-4.4
Estradiol 22.5 7.6-42.6
PSA 0.2 0.0-4.0
IGF-1 199 83-344
Reverse T3 35.9 High 9.2-24.1
Progesterone 0.7 0.2-1.4
SHBG 46.7 16.5-55.9
DHEA-Sulfate 257.7 211.0-492
Insulin 2.7 2.6-24.9

After this, she put me on Sustain-released Liothyronine 5mcg daily to reduce Reverse-T3.
I continued the HCG and here are the results.

04/01/2013 8:09AM

Testosterone, Free 5.6 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 426 348-1197
TSH 3.980 0.45-4.50
Free T4 1.47 0.82-1.77
Free T3 2.2 2.0-4.4
Estradiol 9.3 7.6-42.6
PSA 0.3 0.0-4.0
IGF-1 199 83-344
Reverse T3 15.9 9.2-24.1
Progesterone 0.7 0.2-1.4
SHBG 44.8 16.5-55.9
DHEA-Sulfate 211.9 211.0-492
Pregnenolone 107 <151
DHT 28 Low 30-85
LH 1.5 Low 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.2 Low 1.5-12.4

She changed/increased my Liothronine to immediate release (covered by insurance) 10mcg daily. Added DHEA/Pregnenolone cream 75mg/50mg daily. And HCG is now 500IU twice per week, along with Testosterone cypionate 120mg per week. She also scripted anastrozole in case I need it. Ok, that’s my story up to this point guys. Thank you for taking the time to read it. Now I have questions.

Why did my estradiol drop by like 50%? The only thing that changed was adding the Liothyronine.

I plan on coming off the liothyronine. Can I stop cold turkey? (I am going to get Free T3/T4, Ferritin tested at the end of this month first)

Do you think my reverse T3 will stay in range once I come off the liothyronine?

Any advice in general? I am still waiting for the testosterone to rebuild in my body. No effects yet.

Age: 23
Height: 5’ 11"
Waist: 34"
Weight: 171lbs
Can’t grow a full beard, some chest hair.
Carry most of my fat on my love handles
Hypogonadism (Other than that always been healthy, no drugs/smoking or alcohol)
Never used propecia or other hair loss drugs
Diet is clean 90% of the time (About 2,500 calories on average; If I try to increase I just get fatter even if all foods are extremely clean) I used to hover between 195-200lbs at about the same or slightly less body fat.
Have been depressed. Have not been going to the gym. Tired of killing myself for no results.
Testicles do not ache. Smaller than when I had never touched prohormones (roughly 40%+ smaller)
Morning wood is sometimes not there and when it is, it’s not very strong.

[quote]TRT Phoenix wrote:
Hello everyone! This is my first post. I am 23 years old and would like to give you a brief synopsis of what led me to TRT. I used prohormones at the age of 21 for a 3 month period (did not use HCG/clomid or any other ancillary drugs) and essentially shrank my testicles and severely dampened my HPTA. It was the worst mistake of my life and I have no one to blame but myself. I was never the same after that. Low libido, began losing muscle mass, gaining fat (even though diet did not change) Depressed, etc. Working out did not help, no matter how hard I pushed myself. My body literally began deteriorating.

I had my GP do a blood test to check my testosterone, free and total. Here are the results:

01/03/2012 4:00PM
Result Flag Range
Testosterone, Free 5.0 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 308 Low 348-1197
LH 7.7 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.9 1.5-12.4
Prolactin 15.4 High 4.0-15.2
Estradiol 23.7 7.6-42.6
SHBG 33.7 16.5-55.9
TSH 3.360 0.450-4.50

03/06/2012
Vit. D, 25-Hydroxy 109.0 High 30.0-100.0
DHEA-Sulfate 290.5 211.0-492

I ended up seeing another doctor because the current one was a complete moron and she told me she didn’t think it meant anything and I was fine. I even went to see an endocrinologist and she also said there was nothing wrong with me.

So, this other Naturopathic doctor told me had never seen a young male patient with low testosterone levels like mine. He had me do one final blood test in the morning. Here are the results:

07/09/2012 9:00AM

Testosterone, Free 4.2 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 369 348-1197
Prolactin 12.5 4.0-15.2
Cholesterol, Total 152 100-199
HDL 61 >39
LDL 83 0-99
Triglycerides 39 0-149

He put me on Testosterone Cypionate 0.5ml (100mg) per week. I split that in half and did 2 shots per week. He didn’t know/did not prescribe HCG or anastrozole. I was desperate and foolishly believed that it would work solo.

10/08/2012

Testosterone, Free 7.2 Low 9.3-26.5

Here’s where I open up to you guys. This was about a week after a 50mg dose, so it does not accurately reflect a peak number. As far as physical changes. It was helping a bit in the gym. Now here is where I get foolish. He upped my script to 150mg per week and I had them check my estradiol level 3 days after I injected (trying to get anastrozole script). Estradiol came in at 35.9. Doc says in range and not a problem.

So, at this point I am 4 months in my TRT therapy and I notice a shift in my body composition. Muscle gain stopped and fat gain increased suddenly. I freaked out. My testicles had shrank to maybe 30% of their original size and pulled up tight in the scrotum and I was feeling extremely depressed. I did not get bloodwork (stupid I know). Could have most likely been low DHEA and Pregnenolone or thyroid dysfunction. No insurance at the time and was expensive for me.

He referred me to another Naturopathic doctor. I met her and told her how I was feeling and she scripted me HCG in the hopes my testicle size would recover. They did recover a good amount, but nothing like before I had ever used steroids. Much better though. I had researched much about thyroid hormones and adrenal gland issues at this point. I was on HCG 250 IU twice per week and taking iron 65mg tablets daily. I stopped the T-cyp. injections in mid-November. I tested the following in January (Have insurance now through job):

01/16/2013

Cortisol-AM 18.3 6.2-19.4
Cortisol-PM 9.1 2.3-11.9
Ferritin 30 30-400
Iron Saturation 68 High 15-55
UIBC 102 Low 150-375
TIBC 322 250-450
Vit. B12 1131 High 211-946
Folic Acid >19.9 >3.0
Testosterone, Free 5.4 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 408 348-1197
TSH 3.980 0.45-4.50
Free T4 1.47 0.82-1.77
Free T3 2.8 2.0-4.4
Estradiol 22.5 7.6-42.6
PSA 0.2 0.0-4.0
IGF-1 199 83-344
Reverse T3 35.9 High 9.2-24.1
Progesterone 0.7 0.2-1.4
SHBG 46.7 16.5-55.9
DHEA-Sulfate 257.7 211.0-492
Insulin 2.7 2.6-24.9

After this, she put me on Sustain-released Liothyronine 5mcg daily to reduce Reverse-T3.
I continued the HCG and here are the results.

04/01/2013 8:09AM

Testosterone, Free 5.6 Low 9.3-26.5
Testosterone, Total 426 348-1197
TSH 3.980 0.45-4.50
Free T4 1.47 0.82-1.77
Free T3 2.2 2.0-4.4
Estradiol 9.3 7.6-42.6
PSA 0.3 0.0-4.0
IGF-1 199 83-344
Reverse T3 15.9 9.2-24.1
Progesterone 0.7 0.2-1.4
SHBG 44.8 16.5-55.9
DHEA-Sulfate 211.9 211.0-492
Pregnenolone 107 <151
DHT 28 Low 30-85
LH 1.5 Low 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.2 Low 1.5-12.4

She changed/increased my Liothronine to immediate release (covered by insurance) 10mcg daily. Added DHEA/Pregnenolone cream 75mg/50mg daily. And HCG is now 500IU twice per week, along with Testosterone cypionate 120mg per week. She also scripted anastrozole in case I need it. Ok, that’s my story up to this point guys. Thank you for taking the time to read it. Now I have questions.

Why did my estradiol drop by like 50%? The only thing that changed was adding the Liothyronine.

I plan on coming off the liothyronine. Can I stop cold turkey? (I am going to get Free T3/T4, Ferritin tested at the end of this month first)

Do you think my reverse T3 will stay in range once I come off the liothyronine?

Any advice in general? I am still waiting for the testosterone to rebuild in my body. No effects yet.

[/quote]

You can stop cold turkey from thyroid meds without withdrawal or damage. You can still take it for a while to deal with the Reverse T3 issue but your free thyroid hormones looked fine but your dr did a good thing with dealing with the high reverse t3. Though I would not feel like I had to take thyroid hormones indefinitely.

The one thing I noticed in your first labs was the rather high LH yet extremely low testosterone. This tells me there is something wrong with the TESTICLES…this is why you are not noticing much benefit from the HCG (which functions like LH does)…I would talk about getting your testicles examined (such as by ultrasound). This is where the culprit is.

You would most likely need to raise your testosterone dosage but still take HCG so your testicles don’t atrophy. But taking HCG with a lower dose of T doesn’t look like it is cutting it and your earliest labs already point to ineffective testicles.

Some males are prone to having their brittle HPTA’s broken by prohormones, deca or hair loss drugs.

Read the advice for new guys sticky. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

  • we need to know a lot more about you

Are you iodine deficient? Read the thyroid basics sticky -carefully!
Body temperatures? If low, T3 dose is too small.

You should not be on TRT yet. Should do a HPTA restart, search this site for that and read.

Don’t experiment with larger T cyp doses, you will probably feel worse.

[quote]Receptor wrote:

You can stop cold turkey from thyroid meds without withdrawal or damage. You can still take it for a while to deal with the Reverse T3 issue but your free thyroid hormones looked fine but your dr did a good thing with dealing with the high reverse t3. Though I would not feel like I had to take thyroid hormones indefinitely.

The one thing I noticed in your first labs was the rather high LH yet extremely low testosterone. This tells me there is something wrong with the TESTICLES…this is why you are not noticing much benefit from the HCG (which functions like LH does)…I would talk about getting your testicles examined (such as by ultrasound). This is where the culprit is.

You would most likely need to raise your testosterone dosage but still take HCG so your testicles don’t atrophy. But taking HCG with a lower dose of T doesn’t look like it is cutting it and your earliest labs already point to ineffective testicles.

[/quote]

I hope I will transition well coming off the liothyronine. My fear is having reverse T3 go back high again. At the end of May I plan on testing iodine, selenium, ferritin and Free T3/Free T4.

I know, my testicles shrank due to the prohormones I used and they permanently lost some size and capability to produce testosterone. What would an ultrasound do? I plan on retesting in the start of July.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Some males are prone to having their brittle HPTA’s broken by prohormones, deca or hair loss drugs.

Read the advice for new guys sticky. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

  • we need to know a lot more about you

Are you iodine deficient? Read the thyroid basics sticky -carefully!
Body temperatures? If low, T3 dose is too small.

You should not be on TRT yet. Should do a HPTA restart, search this site for that and read.

Don’t experiment with larger T cyp doses, you will probably feel worse.[/quote]

I am going to get iodine, serum tested at the end of May because I don’t know. I never feel too cold or too hot. Doc and I tried a clomid restart which I forgot to mention. I had a bad reaction to it. I was taking 1/2 tablet every day and by like the fifth day my chest became extremely sensitive and actually started growing (gyno?) So I stopped and gave up on the SERM route.

[quote]TRT Phoenix wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
Some males are prone to having their brittle HPTA’s broken by prohormones, deca or hair loss drugs.

Read the advice for new guys sticky. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

  • we need to know a lot more about you

Are you iodine deficient? Read the thyroid basics sticky -carefully!
Body temperatures? If low, T3 dose is too small.

You should not be on TRT yet. Should do a HPTA restart, search this site for that and read.

Don’t experiment with larger T cyp doses, you will probably feel worse.[/quote]

I am going to get iodine, serum tested at the end of May because I don’t know. I never feel too cold or too hot. Doc and I tried a clomid restart which I forgot to mention. I had a bad reaction to it. I was taking 1/2 tablet every day and by like the fifth day my chest became extremely sensitive and actually started growing (gyno?) So I stopped and gave up on the SERM route.

[/quote]

The chest reaction may be a GOOD thing. The clomid may have produced a testosterone (and thus estradiol effect) meaning an HPTA restart could be an option. If this was occurring, an AI would have been a good thing to add into the mix. Your LH being high with the testosterone being low still tells me something is wrong with your testicles hence why I think someone should check them out.

[quote]Receptor wrote:

The chest reaction may be a GOOD thing. The clomid may have produced a testosterone (and thus estradiol effect) meaning an HPTA restart could be an option. If this was occurring, an AI would have been a good thing to add into the mix. Your LH being high with the testosterone being low still tells me something is wrong with your testicles hence why I think someone should check them out.[/quote]

I think it just means my pituitary gland functions normally. My testicles have lost some size permanently (I used to have very large testicles). I won’t use a SERM again. I highly doubt high estradiol was occurring after 5 days of low dose clomiphene.

So, I have been back on the testosterone cypionate for about 7 weeks now and it is not working. Running 120mg weekly in two divided shots per week, along with HCG and anastrozole 0.25mg the day after each injection. I will post my blood work once I receive results in the next day or so.

Theories as to why it has no effect?

The first time I ran 100mg weekly no AI, no HCG, nothing but solo test. cyp it was working. I could see changes in my body from working out. Now, no effect. Is thyroid hormone required to make the testosterone exert its anabolic effects?

Am I required to use DHEA/pregnenolone cream for cortisol? Essentially, am I out of cortisol and thyroid hormone? Or, should the testosterone work without these?

(My theory is that my liothyronine run used up my cortisol/also left my T4 stores lower. As it already began chewing through my ferritin >down from an already low 30 to 23.)

I am extremely frustrated right now.

EDIT: Here are my most recent blood test results (drawn at 8:30AM, 24hours before my next T-cyp. injection.

Neutrophils (Absolute) 1.7 Low x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8
Testosterone, Serum 1163 ng/dL 348-1197
Free Testosterone(Direct) 24.5 pg/ml 9.3-26.5
Dihydrotestosterone 73 ng/dL 30-85

Pregnenolone, MS 94 ng/dL <151
DHEA-Sulfate 227.0 ug/dL 211-492

TSH 8.730 High uIU/ml 0.45-4.5
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.2 pg/ml 2.0-4.4

Estradiol 13.8 pg/ml 7.6-42.6
SHBG, Serum 36.2 nmol/L 16.5-55.9
PSA 0.3 ng/ml 0.0-4.0

You ever figure this out man?