First Cycle. Long or Short?

Pharma / TRT
1

I’ve got my hands on:

Test Enth
D-Bol
Nolva
Adex

I was originally planning on running:

W 1-12: Test Enth 600mg/week (300mg bi-weekly)
W 1-4: D-Bol 50mg/day (25mg twice a day)
W 1-12: Adex .25mg EOD

or

W 1-12: Test Enth 600mg/week (300mg bi-weekly)
W 4-8: D-Bol 50mg/day (25mg twice a day)
W 1-12: Adex .25mg EOD

I’ve been doing a lot of reading the past few months and was interested in maybe doing a shorter cycle (4-8 week range). The shorter time off and less sides is what got me interested. I also don’t fancy a huge crash at the end; I realize I’ll lose some of the gains I made if I run one of the above cycles but I don’t want to be out of it for 2-3 months.

What are thoughts? Keep in mind this is my first cycle and I do want to make the most of it (i don’t know if i can “waste” my first cycle on a short one. (probably will be running more in the future, especially if I go with the short cycle route).

If I were to run a short cycle what would it look like? Would I be able to maybe up my Test Enth to 700-800mg? Seems kind of high for a first cycle but let me know. I’ve been doing plenty of reading and I’m not pinning until I’m confident with exactly what I want to do. Thank you in advance fellas.

I’m going to get some lab work done before I start just so I know my baseline.

2

If you want to do a shorter cycle I would maybe look into Test Prop. Test Enthanate takes about 4-6 weeks to kick in, which is why you hear most say 10-12 weeks minimum to see results. Im currently in the middle of my first cycle of Test E, and plan on doing 14-16 weeks. I havent experienced any sides as of yet either besides some mild bloating occasionally.

What are your stats? Age, weight, etc. If you do your PCT right there should be no big crash after a cycle. Have you looked into adding in HCG too? That will also make recovery easier. Everything else with your cycle looks good though. Split up your Dbol doses throughout the day. I took 30mg of DBol at one time one and I thought I was going to pass out lol. Whoops.

3

Looking forward to seeing what you decide. I was originally planning a 10 week cycle, but now I’m considering a shorter one as well, maybe in the range of 6 weeks of test-e front-loaded with a short ester like prop. With my last pin of test-e at the end of week 6 I imagine I’d still feel “on” for the better part of week 7, and still be above natural levels for week 8. Couple that with an AI, HCG and a proper PCT and I think I’d make a pretty easy recovery.

4

I would do this
1-12 Test E 600 mg
1-4 Dbol 50 mg in one dose before workout
11-14 Dbol 50mg same
1-14 AI 0.5 mg EOD
For PCT

5

22 years old
6’1 183lbs
10-11% bodyfat.

my goal is to get to 200 single digits by mid june(going on vacation, would like normal test levels lol) i’ve never cycled so i don’t know what kinds of gains i’ll make. i figured it was a realistic goal.

i’ve already purchased all the gear listed above.

30ml test e 300mg/ml
100caps of nolva 20mg
120caps of dianabol 25mg
bunch of anastrozole(adex)

all cost me about $400-450 including needles/syringes/shipping.

i chose the test e because vast majority of forums/people suggest running it 10-14 weeks alone during first cycle(dbol also if u want)
but while i’m waiting for the rest of my gear to get here i’m doing more and more reading and was attracted to 4-6week cycles for health reasons, and many people who have run 12weeks and 4-6weeks seem to favor shorter cycles(less downtime, less shutdown, etc)

i haven’t found myself a source for hCG yet(if anyone knows one that’d be great lol)but i’ll eventually find one. lot’s of people told me it was optional but i do want everything on hand just in case; i would like for this to go as smoothly as possible, especially post-cycle. i don’t want a big crash, i wan’t my t-levels to be back to normal as fast as possible - basically everything that everyone else wants but i just want to make sure i’m taking all the precautions possible. i will more than likely cycle again in the future but it won’t be a regular thing so it’s important that my t levels are high naturally, especially considering i’m in my early-mid 20s.

i’ve read that PCT thread multiple times and i read it again every time someone links it( so thanks :stuck_out_tongue: ), i was wondering if maybe in addition to the nolva/adex i’ll be taking for PCT(or maybe instead of) i could taper off. what are the thoughts on this? i have the extra test e(not that it takes a lot)

i feel like i’m allover the place.

TL;DR

12 week cycle with test-e+dbol+adex tapering off the test-e for PCT
12 week cycle with test-e+dbol+adex with nolva+extra adex for PCT
[[[OR]]]
4-6week cycle with testprop+dbol

if 12 week then PCT
tapering off test-e over the following 8weeks
OR
nolva+extra adex for a few weeks

thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated as well as personal exp.

6

I have no experience in the matter but I’ve read both staunch supporters of the taper and dissenters. Personally I think the stasis-taper method mentioned commonly in this forum unnecessarily prolongs shutdown. At a 100mg per week stasis dose you are still causing near, if not complete shutdown.

If you were to instead start your stasis (once test levels drop to natural levels) at 50-75mg per week and taper down from there I think it would allow test levels to drop gradually enough without prolonging. Again, I have zero experience in this matter and am only attempting to codify the vast amounts of information I’ve absorbed recently.

7

Hi Spiderman,

Cycle looks good. I won’t do a short cycle with Test Enanthate, keep it between 10 and 12 weeks if do use Test E.

As for dbol I would personally only do 30-40mg per day for a first cycle and take 10mg every 3-4 hours, starting in week 2.

Look into getting some HCG, will help a lot in keeping your gains.
Adex you can use at 0.25mg or 0.5mg EOD.

PCT Plan:

Day 1 : Clomid 100mg, Nolva 40mg
Day 2-12 : Clomid 50mg, Nolva 20mg
Day 13-30 : Nolva 20mg

8

@wilbul i don’t think i’ll use clomid as many people say it’s not necessary to use both clomid AND nolva (and i already have nolva). i’m going to get my hands on some hCG whenever i find a source, but i would feel comfortable starting my cycle without it.

i have 25mg tablets of dbol so cutting up the pills for 30-40mg would be kind of a pain to do; is there really a huge difference between 40mg and 50mg? what’s the reasoning for the lower dose? i’ll sit down for a while and cut a bunch of my pills in half for 40mg/day if there’s a good reason lol

@juggs
appreciate the input but at this point if i taper i will probably stick with the 100mg stasis period just because that seems to be what everyone suggests and has done so there is trial+error+feedback, and i haven’t seen much on people who have tried otherwise. BUT that’s interesting that you say that and i think i will try harder to find more input on that method.

–
attracted to this taper method but i just dont have the time unless im gonna smuggle < 3ml test out of da country(yikes)

guess i’m going with just the serm.

9

[quote]spiderman88 wrote:
@juggs
appreciate the input but at this point if i taper i will probably stick with the 100mg stasis period just because that seems to be what everyone suggests and has done so there is trial+error+feedback, and i haven’t seen much on people who have tried otherwise. BUT that’s interesting that you say that and i think i will try harder to find more input on that method.
[/quote]

Anytime. Yes, several people have posted that the 100mg stasis-taper method has worked for them, so take it with a grain of salt. I just wanted to make sure you were aware that there are also others like Bill Roberts who think it’s a bad idea. Always best to get both sides before making a decision.

10

i’ll definitely keep on doing research as i’m attracted to that method. seems like it may be healthier(relative) than SERMs but i don’t really know, it’s definitely cheaper. but since i have the SERMs on hand already and am on a time crunch and dont really want to wait 8+months to do this i’ll be going the SERM route, taking notes during my whole cycle+PCT and blood testing before my first ever cycle, during probably(curious to see hormone levels while on) and definitely after.

labwork thread: Lab Work, Blood Testing and Symptoms - Testosterone Replacement - Forums - T Nation

does it matter where i get the work done? will most insurance cover it? or do i need to find a website or just a lab around town?

11

Hi spiderman,

I personally think 30mg - 40mg is the best risk to reward ratio. If you go above 40mg you will not get that much strength anymore, and are prone to more side IMO. If you have 25mg pills split them in half and take 3 halves a day. This means you will get 37.5mg ED. As for PCT you can do Nolva only. Nolva is much better then Clomid, they are both serms, but effectively they do two different things. I think Nolva blocks estrogen and Clomid supports gonadotropin release if I’m not mistaken.

As for HCG you can def do a cycle without it. But in the end, how quickly you can bring back your natural test, will determine how much gains you keep. If you don’t use HCG at all, maybe add some aromasin into your PCT.

If you do nolva only I suggest below PCT:

Day 1-10: 40mg Nolva
Day 11-30: 20mg Nolva

Enjoy the cycle and eat those proteins!

12

just checked out my dbol, it’s the tablets that dissolve in ur stomach and have the powder inside( i can open them up before ingesting, at least i think so as i havent tried to open one up yet but thats what it looks like)

i can split it pretty accurately but just had a few questions.

if for example one day i take 40mg and the next i take 35mg because i didnt split it perfectly and i go on this small up and down throughout my dbol period will that be an issue? as long as i’m not taking more than 75mg per 3days(figured prob not but just checking, sorry for silly question)

i will also do my best to keep it as clean as possible but is cleanliness an issue for the dbol?? oral ofc if u didnt catch that

nolva is the same way in 20mg bunches so i guess thats a nonissue

13

My dbol pills are just plastic covering powder, I can’t split them unless I pretend it’s cocaine but even then it’s a huge pain in the ass to do this everyday, very messy and inaccurate. Can I take two pills one day, one the next and keep alternating? 25mg tabs and I want 40 not 50per day