First Cycle in 12 Years, Looking for Guidance

Pharma / TRT
1

What’s up guys,

First time post. Before anything I’d like to say a huge thank you to the regular contributors. The information you’ve provided is invaluable. I honestly can’t say how much I appreciate this website and the people who take the time to give their knowledge and answer questions, especially considering my first experience with gear (not good). I’ve been doing my research here for a while now and I finally feel like I’m ready to run a cycle the right way and post without asking any annoying, repetitive questions you guys have already answered a bunch of times (maybe one or two…I apologize in advance). So Here’s my deal…

I’m 38 and I’ve been lifting fairly consistently since I was 15. Around age 26 I did a cycle that consisted of a completely oral stack from MaxMuscle: TT40 (similar to maxxtor I believe) and something similar to Tren, I can’t recall the name. At the end I took a product called EstroBlock they also sold. The PCT did not go well. I started to develop gyno and even began lactating from my nipples. Testicles shrunk. Fortunately, everything returned to normal, eventually.

So this isn’t my first cycle, but I’m still sort of treating it like it is. I would like to do this as safely as possible and not go through any of that again. I answered the questions in the “Advice for New Guys” thread. So in the following, I’ll post those answers, a few other relevant facts, my cycle and PCT plans, and finally a few questions I have. Thank you very much for any feedback in advance.

Answers to Q’s from “Advice for New Guys”

  1. Age: 38

  2. Height: 5’10

  3. Waist: 32”

  4. Weight: about 167

  5. Body and Facial hair(?): Smooth bod, full beard.

  6. Where I carry fat? Stomach, however I don’t carry much. I’ve did a lot of boxing training for most of 19’/20’. Before that, had a bit of a gut.

  7. Health conditions: 1. I have had issues downstairs since I was 36. I’ve seen a urologist at Kaiser and he admittedly could not give me an exact answer as to why. According to him, the only thing to do really besides exercise more and lose weight is medication, and I’ve just used that. Again, since exercising and doing a lot more cardio, this issue has definitely gotten better

  8. Pretty bad hemorrhoids. I had to have surgery in 2016 along with a blood transfusion. Hemorrhoids have recently come back and I might need to have the surgery again and be much more careful with straining, what I eat, etc., as I am now. My most recent blood test said I had mild anemia, and this happens when I go through a period where I bleed a lot.

  9. RX and OTC drugs: Psyllium Husk (fiber), saw palmetto and fish oil. As I mentioned in my intro, I started using androgel about 4 months ago, and half way through I bumped it up to twice a day, in the morning and night. I was taking Minoxidil topical solution 2% for a receding hairline during that time (my most recent test results show DHT way out of control.

  10. Lab Results:

Bloodwork from April 8th, 2021:

  1. Total T: 999 ng/dL; Range: 240 - 871 (corrected)

  2. Free T: 13.3 ng/dL Range: 240 - 871

  3. E2: Unavailable at the moment (was <10 pg/mL, range: 11 - 44 on 02/02/21. Last day of Androgel use).

  4. SHBG: 73 nmol/L; Range: 11 - 78 nmol/L

  5. FSH: 3.1 mIU/mL Range: 1.0 - 12.0 miU/mL

  6. LH: 3.1 mIU/mL Range: <=12.1 mIU/mL

  7. DHT: Unavailable

  8. TSH: unavailable.

  9. Complete Blood Count:

  10. WBC’s Auto: 5.7 x1000/mcL Range: 4.0 - 11 x1000/mcL

  11. RBC, Auto: 13.7 g/dL Range: 4.70 - 6.10 Mill/mcL

  12. HGB: 13.7 g/dL (Low due to hemorrhoids) Range: 14.0 - 18.0 g/dL

  13. HCT, Auto: 42.3% Range: 42.0 - 52.0 %

  14. MCV: 87.9 fL Range: 80.0 - 94.0 fL

  15. MCH: 28.5 pg/cell Range: 27.0 - 35.0 jpg/cell

  16. MCHC: 32.4 g/dL Range: 32.0 - 37.0 g/dL

  17. RDW, Blood: 250 x1000/mcL Range: 130 - 400 x100/mcL

  18. PSA: 1.0 ng/mL Range: <= 2.5 ng/mL

I understand how ridiculous it is to not have my E2, DHT or TSH results in particular (Testament to Doctors being idiots). I sent in an email requesting these tests be processed with the samples I provided if possible.

Here are my test results from February. Although they don’t mean much (I had been using Androgel and stopped on Feb 2nd), they might help shed some light on where my levels are likely to be now:

From 2/2/21:

E2: <10 pg/mL, Range: 11 - 44

DHT: 116 ng/dL, Range: 12 - 65 ng/dL

TSH: 0.99 mcIU/mL, Range: 0.35 - 4.00 mcIU/mL

Other Info:

  • As I mentioned, I used Androgel for 2 months. I stopped this on Feb 2nd, so I’ve been off of that for a little more than 2 months. I’ve also used Minoxidil 2% for a receding hairline, also not for over 2 months

Plan:

Weeks 1-10 (April 9th - June 18thth): Test Ethanate, 250 mg, twice per week, E3D.

Weeks 7-10 (3 weeks) (May 20th - June 13th): HCG, 250 iu, twice per week, E3D.

Weeks 14-16 (2 weeks) : Tamoxifen 40mg per week

Weeks 16-18 (2 weeks) : Tamoxifen 20mg per week.

Questions:

  1. What do you guys think of this plan overall? The PCT and it’s time tables? Is the HCG timing on point? I’ve seen some conflicting info here but I believe I understand the way the HTPA mechanism works, in a general sense.
  2. What do you think about taking an AI during the cycle as a preventative measure? This was my original plan, but from what I understand, I shouldn’t do this + HCG during a cycle. I am a little concerned about developing gyno, but I also don’t want to have to choose between that and my testicles shrinking.
  3. Is there a way to change my profile name here?

I have other questions that I will add, but for now I wanted to get this up. Again, thank you in advance for any feedback. It is greatly appreciated.

2

Is there a reason you’re not doing TRT? Like injections rather than gels?

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I am doing injections, though a cycle. Gel was temporary

4

You should consider going the blast and cruise route. Run a cycle then drop down to trt levels, then cycle (blast) again X months later. Otherwise you’re asking for trouble. We’re the same age and I’ve been on legitimate trt for four years now. It’s easier in the long run.

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When you say otherwise asking for trouble, can you elaborate? Do you mean coming off and staying off for a while is a bad idea? I am planning on TRT afterwards, but I thought a little down the line.

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So you are going to blast and cruise then? If you’re going to start TRT after this just skip the PCT and go right into it. That makes more sense

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I meant to include “down the line”. That makes sense though, didn’t realize that’s a possibility.

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Realistically if you’re low T now, run a cycle and put on decent size, PCT then go back to your low T state it’ll be difficult to keep that mass you just added on. But, going from the cycle right into TRT would help you hold onto it

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i believe you wanted to say - impossible…there is no way in hell anyone keeps gains after a cycle on any natural T, not even to speak of low T…

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I’m gonna say that depends. You start a cycle from nothing (physique wise) you may not go over that natty level threshold (I made those words up but still feel like it’s valid)

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who even does that? who starts cycle before even going to the gym? when i was a kid, you had to be 220lbs before you start cycle, otherwise you were never respected in the gym ever again…

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Not before going to the gym. I think most go a few times. You should see some of the other forums :joy:

Full disclosure: I am abusing drugs when they are 100% not needed, BUT I’m on TRT for actual medical needs, so a little blast here and there isn’t quite as bad (in my mind) as cycling prematurely

13

Let me introduce you to a place called Reddit.

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5/20/21

What’s up guys,
I’m about half way through my cycle. Things are going pretty well, I wasn’t making the gains I expected at first, but at this point I’m seeing results. Deadlift has gone up by about 100lbs, bench has improved greatly as well. I’m expecting to see some gains in my squats tonight also.
I understand side effects typically occur more prominently during pct, but I’m still happy to say even what I expected during the cycle is minimal. Aside from a few big zits here and there (maybe 3) I’m just now starting to feel the itchiness and sensitivity in my nips.
I have my Nolvadex on hand, but this throws a bit of a monkey wrench into the mix. My original plan was to start HCG soon, on the last 3 weeks of my cycle (12wk) and then follow the guidelines for ethanate half-life and then start Nolvadex. I know a lot of guys run nolva during the cycle and I would like to start it now to reduce the swelling and prevent and gland development. But where does that leave my PCT (I decided as of now not to blast and cruise, as my total t was actually 999, not 99 and ha typically been high)? From what I understand, both hgc and nolva (ai and serm?) taken together is a no no during the cycle. Should I switch the two and start nolva now and hcg a few weeks after my last pin? If I continue on my regular plan of starting hgc now, will that help with gyno? I thought nolva was the way to go for that issue.

Thanks in advance for the feedback

15

Damn dude, you got things mixed up.

Read my post here:

HCG is not an AI, it can be run year round if blasting and cruising. Tamoxifen can and should be added any time gyno starts. Itching nips is not gyno, but a sign your estrogen could be high. Where is your AI (arimidex / exemestane), you should always have one of those drugs on hand to combat symptoms suggestive of high estrogen on cycle.

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You can use Nolva on cycle if you’re getting nipple sensitivity. I don’t think it takes much, maybe 20mg 2x per week, or 5mg daily

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Glad to read your cycle is going well.
I take HCG year round (Im on TRT) it will increase your E2 a little so be ready for that. If your balls have atrophied a little or they ache the HCG will fix that.

IMO if your nipples are doing or feeling anything it is time to get on the AI to get your E2 down. Don’t over do it. AI are powerful a little goes a long way and don’t expect results (your nipples to stop itching) over night. Give it 7 days before considering upping the dose. So many guys crash their E2 at this time in the cycle. They panic and start eating AI’s like candy.

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Thank you for your feedback. I read your article and I think it’s cleared things up for me for the most part. I’m having a little trouble understanding which PCT related drugs are serms vs ai’s. I’m sure after I’ll get it after going over everything a few more times. I do understand what you’re saying about itchy nips vs actual gyno, and the need to keep an ai on hand. So for my situation (just ichy nipples and some signs of high e2) it seems it might be better to use an amount of arimidex / exemestane right now and keep my Nolvadex on hand for pct… Again, I appreciate the feedback.

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Thank you so much for your feedback. This coincides perfectly with what I understood from @galgenstrick 's post. Info is starting to connect and make more sense. I also did not know HCG should help with testicle pain. I’ve been dealing with this since around 2017 - not severe, but the urologist I’ve seen attributed it to either lower back strain or an infection…go figure.
As for the HCG and AI, my plan now is to start with a low dose of an ai and then move onto HCG, since it will raise e2.
I really appreciate the information.

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AIs such as anastrozole reduce whole body estrogen by inhibiting the conversion of testosterone into estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. This is typically used to reduce high estrogen symptoms that result from high levels of estrogen in the body.

SERMs like Nolvadex block the estrogen receptors in the body so the estrogen that is free in your body cannot bind to them. SERMs also stimulate the pituitary into producing luteinizing hormone (LH), which signals your testicles to begin producing testosterone on their own again.

1 Like