First Cycle - High Level Athlete/Martial Artist

So I’ve made a couple adjustments to the diet…more protein, etc. & have almost completely decided to up the test to about 400 mg a week (I was thinking 125 mg [0.5 ml of Sust] eod), what would be the best/most effective way to dose 400-500 mg of test/wk? I came up with .5 ml eod based on fact that the shortest acting ester in Sust holds a length of 48 hrs…

I’m still torn on the Winstrol vs. Anavar debate almost solely based on cost at this point…from what I can gather the Anavar has very few/if any side effects, i.e. easier on your joints, hairline, liver etc. but is not quite as efficient in really cutting you up as Winstrol, however the strength gains can be just as good. The Winstrol appears to be a little more effective albeit a little more harsh…the tendon pain is something that is worrisome and I’ve read a pretty much equal number of articles/experiences saying that it caused tendon pain/didn’t caused tendon pain/pain was extremely manageable-hardly noticeable; there doesn’t seem to be a clear cut general consensus…for me the Anavar is just about twice as much cost-wise as the Winstrol so that is something that I have to take into account as well…

How about the supplement regime? Should anything be changed when I do cycle? Pretty much everything I take is for joints and or is a green supplement…

If you have any reserves about your joints then DONT take winny, it will dry them out very fast, it also hangs around your system for a drug test way longer then you would suspect. Also, IMO Sust is only good if you front load 3ml then shoot 1ml every fifth day. If you do 1ml of Sust a week all you will feel is ass cheek pain from where you shot it.

IMO full dose Alpha Male FEELS stronger then 1ml of sust every 7…my first cycle a million years ago was 1ml Russian Sust every Sunday with 25mg of anabol M-F. I thought the sust was fake until i did 2ml every Sunday…boy that shit was painful.

I would stick with basics and take it easy your first cycle. Everyone is very different in terms of how your genetic body chem is made up.

Try 50mg of Test prop M, W, F with weekends off…try that for a months and adjust frequency and dosage accordingly, I think you will be surprised. It clears your system fast for a drup test and kicks in quick. You can always add but can never take…a 400mg front load of Test Cyp followed by 200mg shot weekly is also a great conservative place to start to gather a baseline. Hope this helps, I would start low and keep it simple. Test only at first IMO

[quote]Obiewon wrote:
So I’ve made a couple adjustments to the diet…more protein, etc. & have almost completely decided to up the test to about 400 mg a week (I was thinking 125 mg [0.5 ml of Sust] eod), what would be the best/most effective way to dose 400-500 mg of test/wk? I came up with .5 ml eod based on fact that the shortest acting ester in Sust holds a length of 48 hrs…

I’m still torn on the Winstrol vs. Anavar debate almost solely based on cost at this point…from what I can gather the Anavar has very few/if any side effects, i.e. easier on your joints, hairline, liver etc. but is not quite as efficient in really cutting you up as Winstrol, however the strength gains can be just as good. The Winstrol appears to be a little more effective albeit a little more harsh…the tendon pain is something that is worrisome and I’ve read a pretty much equal number of articles/experiences saying that it caused tendon pain/didn’t caused tendon pain/pain was extremely manageable-hardly noticeable; there doesn’t seem to be a clear cut general consensus…for me the Anavar is just about twice as much cost-wise as the Winstrol so that is something that I have to take into account as well…

How about the supplement regime? Should anything be changed when I do cycle? Pretty much everything I take is for joints and or is a green supplement…[/quote]

I know cost is an issue. I can’t advise you on that but I would really say for a guy involved in both high impact and high risk sports–especially one where you can get a joint torn apart if you don’t tap in time, Winny is the VERY LAST thing you want messing up your tendons for jiujitsu. At least for your first cycle. If at some point in the future you want to mess with it, fine, but break into things with the fewest possible variables to screw things up.

Also, you will still be getting lots of help with your leaning out the way you are doing things now. You have an extremely hard training schedule + a very very clean diet. I would not worry too much. If you really wanted something known for “leaning you out” I would suggest Masteron. But honestly, I don’t think it fits your goals.

Supp regimen looks fine. I might look into some surge workout fuel to drink during your marathon jiujitsu workouts, but everything you have looks fine. Nothing stupid. ED pin is better, but harder to measure accurately at your current dose, so EOD would probably work just fine as well and I wouldn’t worry. The difference is between “perfect” and “not quite perfect” so no biggie.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Obiewon wrote:
So I’ve made a couple adjustments to the diet…more protein, etc. & have almost completely decided to up the test to about 400 mg a week (I was thinking 125 mg [0.5 ml of Sust] eod), what would be the best/most effective way to dose 400-500 mg of test/wk? I came up with .5 ml eod based on fact that the shortest acting ester in Sust holds a length of 48 hrs…

I’m still torn on the Winstrol vs. Anavar debate almost solely based on cost at this point…from what I can gather the Anavar has very few/if any side effects, i.e. easier on your joints, hairline, liver etc. but is not quite as efficient in really cutting you up as Winstrol, however the strength gains can be just as good. The Winstrol appears to be a little more effective albeit a little more harsh…the tendon pain is something that is worrisome and I’ve read a pretty much equal number of articles/experiences saying that it caused tendon pain/didn’t caused tendon pain/pain was extremely manageable-hardly noticeable; there doesn’t seem to be a clear cut general consensus…for me the Anavar is just about twice as much cost-wise as the Winstrol so that is something that I have to take into account as well…

How about the supplement regime? Should anything be changed when I do cycle? Pretty much everything I take is for joints and or is a green supplement…[/quote]

I know cost is an issue. I can’t advise you on that but I would really say for a guy involved in both high impact and high risk sports–especially one where you can get a joint torn apart if you don’t tap in time, Winny is the VERY LAST thing you want messing up your tendons for jiujitsu. At least for your first cycle. If at some point in the future you want to mess with it, fine, but break into things with the fewest possible variables to screw things up.

Also, you will still be getting lots of help with your leaning out the way you are doing things now. You have an extremely hard training schedule + a very very clean diet. I would not worry too much. If you really wanted something known for “leaning you out” I would suggest Masteron. But honestly, I don’t think it fits your goals.

Supp regimen looks fine. I might look into some surge workout fuel to drink during your marathon jiujitsu workouts, but everything you have looks fine. Nothing stupid. ED pin is better, but harder to measure accurately at your current dose, so EOD would probably work just fine as well and I wouldn’t worry. The difference is between “perfect” and “not quite perfect” so no biggie.[/quote]

So I’ve decided on the Anavar…even if I have to wait another week or so to start the cycle…I figured I’ve waited this long what’s another week or two and on top of that I watched a couple of videos on the damage Winstrol can do to your tendons, albeit it was long-term abuse, but still the thought of something being that taxing on my tendons is very worrisome. I am going to start on the peptides as well which I have been doing a lot of reading and can’t seem to find a single negative piece on them…coupled with the Sust and Anavar I believe that I’ll have a really good first cycle that will have little to no side effects, great strength gains w/out hindering my endurance and give me the look that I’m wanting…

Not to be too vain either but my brother is an avid Crossfitter, one of those “if you aren’t with us you’re against types”…I went home for Xmas, did some Crossfit stuff and absolutely smoked him (which I attribute more to the way I train vs. the way he does) but I really want to have that “what the fuck have you been doing” look when I go home at the end of June for a wedding…I told him that I think Crossfit is a great workout but it’s not sport specific and will never give me the look I want…you know the one…the deep cuts, big arms, tapered waist, and vascularity like you wouldn’t believe…

So I’ve all but decided on the 125 mg of Sust eod, probably 60 mg Anavar, plus the peptides will do everything that I’m wanting…

With the Anavar what is a good dosage for the first cycle? I’ve read that a lot of people go anywhere from 50-80 mg ed so I figured that 60 mg ed would be a good dosage…also is that good to do for the full 10 weeks?

Thanks for all of the solid advice guys…I really appreciate it.

Not too bad. ED is best, but EOD will be fine.

I would say sust for 8-10 weeks, var for 6-8
If you want to run sust for 10 weeks, then run the var for 8 weeks, 5-12 would extend the cycle to 12 weeks, and bridge up to PCT, since you will need to start PCT 12-14 days after the last shot.

60mg is okay. You can bump it a little.

Probably don’t need the peptides on this first run.

Maybe run some GHRP-2 or GHRP-6 during PCT and in between cycles to help keep gains.

First cycle, keep it simple.

I think it was BBB that made some really good posts on how AAS use should change for fighters. Whoever it was said basically you guys can get away with lower doses. You just want/need a slight edge.

Great info…& in accordance with what BBB said about AAS & fighters I totally agree…I’m really not looking to get huge or even make incredible strength gains…I just want to lean up, get a bit stronger, recover quicker and get that slight edge…if I put on a little mass then that is alright too…I’m a decent size 55er as I walk at about 85 so if I were to put on 5 or 10 lbs of lean muscle mass it wouldn’t be a big deal…half my fights have been at 170 anyways (even one at 185) and at this point this is still something that I do b/c I love it…I have a normal 9-5 that pays my bills…

Will I ever fight in the UFC or even Strikeforce? I would love to think so but the truth of the matter is that there are hundreds of guys out there just like me, and hundreds that are better…I’m at an amazing camp with top level pros that are in the UFC so that helps but all of this is simply b/c I love the sport & I love to train…whether that be for a fight, a triathlon a road race or b/c my girl is coming in town…

So we’re all good…thank you guys so much for all of the help and info. The Anavar is going to be about twice as much as the Winstrol but worth it imo…the cycle will look like this:

Wks. 1-10: 125 mg Sustanon 250 eod
Wks. 5-12: 60-80 mg Anavar ed
Wks. 12: 20 mg Nolvadex 2x/day, start Ipomorelin & GRF mod(1-29) [100 mcg each 3x daily]
Wks. 13: 20 mg Nolvadex ed

Should be able to start it either tomorrow or Monday…thanks again & I’ll keep you guys posted with how it is going and maybe an updated pic every 3 weeks or so…

I been looking into the same thing.
prop 50 mg EOD
mast 50 mg EOD
seems to look the best

FYI I ran prop 100mg EOD and while sparring MT the back pumps/cramps were to much. I would be careful running test that high.

Picking up all the gear and getting started tomorrow morning…super excited and will keep this thread alive with updates…quick question though…what is the best way of dosing the Anavar? I was thinking twice a day but what is the most effective?

Never used, but based on the active life being quoted as 8-12 hours I would say 2 or 3 times daily. You could do breakfast lunch and dinner. Whatever’s easist.


Just wanted a give a quick update to anyone that is interested…about 18 days in & I’ve put on about 15 lbs. and lost 0.3-0.5% body fat…I’m roughly 200 lbs. and 10.6% bf (I use a 9 pt. caliper and the Parillo equation)…everything else has been going great…getting strong and my cardio is as good as ever (w/ the exception of being able to run more than about 3 miles due to the calf pumps…see thread I created about anavar and cardio…)

The picture in the opening post was me of me starving and 4 days into my weight cut, the next step was dehydration before weigh-in (I use a steam room or hot tub…)…the above pictures are from 2 days ago…drinking about a gallon of water a day and eating 5-7 meals a day…I know that you my abs are not quite as visible in the above pic but that is mostly due to the fact that I’m full, hydrated, and not flexing my abs (just the opposite in the opening pic) but the first thing I noticed was the increased vascularity and the increase in the size of my arms…

Things are going well & I’m liking the results…thanks again for the advice and support.

Here’s the 2nd pic…sorry that I didn’t hit any of the poses that are often times required…I’m just a triathlete and fighter…I know nothing about bb poses…

looks like your getting good results obiewan! How have things been going the last two weeks?

So that’s me from yesterday deadlifting 405 (5 reps)…everything has been going great with the exception of the anavar…my boy’s order was seized in Miami so I had to drop down to 20 mg ed for about 8 days just to keep it in my system…the anavar to finish out the rest of the cycle (about 4 weeks left on the Sustanon) should be here tomorrow…

Size and strength gains have been incredible, I weighed in at 206 yesterday (up 21 lbs) @ 12.8% bf so I’ve only gained about 2% bf…I’ve put on roughly 16.5 lbs. of muscle…time to really tighten up the diet now and start leaning out…I was thinking about running 40mcg Clen ed when I finish the sustanon to help me really lean out and cut up…what do you guys think?

Damn, sorry about that…walking out the door but will rotate it later on tonight and repost…anyways, you get the idea…cycle is going great.

there we go…auto corrected the lighting as well…


So those are a couple of training pics from last week (I apologize for the lack of bb poses, but to my credit, I’m no bodybuilder…) I couldn’t have been happier with the cycle…thanks again to everyone for all the advice…started a little Clen to lean out so I’m getting there…total body change results?

From 185 to 207 in about 6 weeks.

From 11% bf to 12.9% bf.

That’s 15.3 lbs. of muscle gained and 6.7 lba. of fat.

Strength gains were incredible as well and as an aside, dl 455 last weekend @ 198 lbs./ (not amazingly impressive I know but I was happy).

Here is the other training pic…my bad; that’s a 181.5 lb. Atlas stone that I put over a 54 inch bar six times…

They can see Decanoate up to 18months.

Hope the cycel works for you.

I woud go 16weeks with prop and ad Halo last tree weeks