This dude is 5’9"
We have very similar structure. I’m thinking this is pretty close for you.
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OP @Sindrik8x there’s been a lot of responses so i may have missed your response or you may have missed the question.
Are you natty or on TRT/enhanced?
I’m concerned about your fat intake being too low if natty. By extension, if your coach recommended your fats to be 35g daily, I’m even more concerned about your coach.
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He’s natty
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This is actually very simple to calculate, providing:
- Your tested percent body fat is accurate
- And if you only lose fat in your cut, i.e., your lean body weight remains constant.
Andrew mentioned being 210lbs and about 15% body fat. Let’s assume that is true:
Calculate the lean body weight at 15% body fat: 210lbs times 0.85 equals 178.5lbs.
Then determine what body fat you want to be the day of the show, say 5%. That the lean body weight and divide by (100% minus 5%) 0.95. This equals 188lbs.
All that said, it is very difficult to go seriously into a cut and not drop lean muscle. IMO, the more your body adapts to you shedding fat, the less lean muscle you will lose during your cut. That is, the second cut is “easier” than the first cut.
If there is anything in bodybuilding that is next to impossible to measure, it is percent body fat. I would want a measurement every week. It would need to be convenient and reasonably inexpensive. Plus I want to know the accuracy, as in plus or minus 2%
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OP, your coach is running your hormones into the ground with his dietary fat recommendations.
Anything less than 0.3, maybe 0.25g/lb, is negatively impacting your hormones. Most notably: your testosterone.
Sincerely, find a coach that knows what he’s doing.
You are on the same track as I. At 5’9" at 188lbs and 5% BF, @Andrewgen_Receptors would have an FFMI of 27.
The upper limit of nattys is 25, and @Andrewgen_Receptors is admittedly enhanced (as am I).
So, he would have to compete at 188 with 5%, so 179lbs of lbm and 9 pounds of other.
He is currently 210@15% ( I think higher based on the pics), or 178lbs of LBM and 31lbs of fat.
So, … he would have to lose 22lbs of fat and no muscle to be stage ready.
Yes.
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Especially natty
Guys we’re going on 70 comments and most of them are about FFMI based on very flawed numbers. No one here has been DEXA scanned, and even if they had - it has nothing to do with OP.
I think it’s time to let the conversation about hypothetical FFMI based on hypothetical numbers - end.
OPs coach is either using horribly outdated information, or is just plain guessing with OPs plan. This is a problem that needs addressing, first and foremost.
Please don’t let it get burried in hypotheticals again.
No way natty.
I got down to 178 thinking I could compete, lol. I was still 13% bf, just skinny AF.
You really have to know wtf you are doing to get below 10% - carb cycling, IF, HIIT, LISS, heavy/medium/light lifting. It is unnatural to get that low.
It ruins your hormones, you are close to death at 8%.
Guess you are uncomfortable being called out for being over 20%BF while not natty.
Please don’t confuse my calculation as agreement. It is merely a mathematical calculation, with many premises. I put zero confidence in any measured percent body fat. The only thing that directly reflects the “objective” of bodybuilding is the mirror. Your measured percent body fat will give you no evidence to plead your case about how you placed in the contest.
I am real new to FFMI. I don’t see that as a tell-all for bodybuilding. I don’t see how FFMI would have benefited me in any competition that I entered. FFMI seems to be just another number to strive to optimize. I preferred to keep my eye on the mirror.
?
Idgaf what I’m at, I’m trying to help OP as hes being lead astray.
Considering this is his training log, i assumed most conversation should be, i dunno, about him…?
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Valid.
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Morning brother.
Just catching up. Read over your comments, did some digging and reading last night, and obviously will link up with coach on stuff this week to discuss.
That being said (and without being defensive or a know it all), I just wanted to add a few pieces of info that I feel are relevant here.
I’m particularly anal about my health. I have been since before I started Powerlifting due to issues I had with my back, and making sure my numbers look good with bloodwork (as diabetes runs heavily in my family). So, I wanted to toss some items out to show I feel like this “destroying” my hormones might be a bit of an overreach (just imho).
We started around 45 to 50 fat back in October of 2023, and have very, very rarely reduced/cut fats. I think two times thus far over 7 months. It’s usually manipulating carbs most often, and keeping protein high af.
I got my bloodwork done about 1 to 1.5 months into the dietary changes, and my T Levels were:
4.860 ng/ml
Per my Dr., normal ranges:
Adult Male (20-49 years) 2.49-8.36 ng/mL
Testosterone Free:
101.7 pg/ml
Per my Dr., normal ranges:
Male Tanner Stage IV 35.0 - 169.0 pg/mL
Male Tanner Stage V 41.0 - 239.0 pg/mL
I have no symptoms of low T. Libido is on point and extra even, workouts hit hard and I’m putting in work, body fat is consistently down and muscle % has been trending up, etc.
All the reading I reviewed AT BEST last night (and I looked at 4 to 5 studies from 2018 - 2023), said that what you state “MAY COORELATE”. That recent studies do SUGGEST there may be effects, but that those effects would result in deficits of maybe 10 - 15% reduction in hormone levels.
Again, could be my ignorance, not knowing what I’m reading, but the formula has been working. So, I don’t understand the hate on my coach who is doing this as a favor to me, as a friend, and has been supportive of me and helped me grow for years in the gym without any negative effects thus far.
Again, I am not experienced like you, I am not trying to be defensive. I just don’t see what you do. Maybe I need further education on it. But, where I come from, results speak the most and I’m EXTREMELY happy with mine over these last 6 to 12 months.
FWIW - My coach did want me to get bloodwork at the halfway point, so I will be scheduling that for week after next. If changes are warranted, we will alter course (obviously).
Just playing devil’s advocate here (not that Andrew is the devil haha), but lighting makes a big difference in how lean someone looks. I could take a picture flexing with down lighting and most would guess I was sub 10%, I could take a relaxed picture with front lighting and most would guess I was north of 15%. In reality, I am probably between 10 and 15%.
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Not that hes not. Not not. LOL
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I appreciate that you’re doing that. Not only have a somewhat contrary opinion but that you’re supporting your position with data and experience. This is the kind of stuff that helps everyone grow and learn and reassess things.
That said, my knowledge is still in line with theirs, that this can have bad effects on your hormones, but mostly when you start getting really lean, like sub-12 or 10 or less.
This is ultimately what matters. You’re doing this for yourself, not to meet some theoretical ideal.
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Yeah man, and that’s why we scheduled the test. My Dr. actually just emailed me back. I’ll be going in end of week 9 (right at half way point), getting my labs done up.
As we get leaner, I’m sure the approach is going to change. He goes off what my body is doing, and what he’s had success with on stage.
I’m not saying I’m right. I’m not saying he’s right (my coach). What I’m saying is it HAS WORKED thus far, and IS WORKING now. And until he tells me to change, I’m going to do as asked. He has my best interest at heart, he knows me way better than the internet, he cares about me as a person and about my health.
I’m always going to shoot straight and provide numbers. I have nothing to prove to anyone else but me. I’m accountable to my standard and expectation.
I came for feedback, I am open to criticism (positive or negative), I am open to conversation, and I have no problems having discussions about stuff with my coach because we both only care about the end goal (and the journey there). We want this to be the best productive experience possible. So, I’m taking nothing personal here. I’m here to get better, and to learn. And to communicate with guys that have done this a time or two whether casual, amateur or pro. Everyone has a perspective we can learn from.
As to changes, we will alter course when it’s needed. He’s very aware of the benefits of “good fats” and doesn’t care if I go a bit over in regards to those. Nor does he care that I am anal about tracking those either. We are going off what my body is doing and how I’m feeling (and two years working together). I don’t anticipate he’s going to keep fats this low all throughout.
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You’ve posted your macros, but care to share more diet details? I’m glad you’re feeling good so far! Also, are you and your coach working to bring up any lagging body parts (or otherwise addressing symmetry)?
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