I’ve been reviewing the techniques for converting Fina.
They all seem to follow the same basic pattern:
- disolve crushed pellets in BA or BB mx
- add oil to mix
- filter
One step doesnt make sense to me. WHY DO YOU NEED TO ADD THE OIL BEFORE YOU FILTER. Wouldn’t it make more sense to filter the dissolved solution first and then add the oil. My guess is that the oil just causes it to pass through the filter more slowly, or is there some chemical bonding going on.
Is there anybody around with some chemistry knowledge that can explain the reactions to me. (Its been a while, but I should be able to recognzie it if someone explains it.)
Thanks!!!
-DV
I am no chemist, but if you try and filter only the BA/BB and tren solution without the oil - the solution will just soak into the coffee filter/painters cap - and you will have very little product to add to the oil.
The BA/BB and tren will go into solution with the oil - and you will lose far less tren that way.
Just my opinion.
Hmmm. True, rainjack. That might be an issue. Another reason that you run the oil through the filter with the tren solution is to sterilize, and filter the oil itself. (even though you are going to bake it for sterilization anyway)
But, if you have the money and inclination, you could do two conversions side-by-side:
1)Carry out the first conversion as per the usual protocol (mix everything then filter).
2)With the second conversion, you could just filter the tren/BA/BB solution and mix with oil.
3)I guess you could do a third conversion as well. It will be similar to the second, except after you run the tren/BA/BB through the filter, you will flush the filter with 2-3ml oil, to pick up any tren that may be absorbed in the filter.
Then you can get lab tests from the 3, and see what protocol worked better. Use the one that worked best … and give the other two to me! Since I gave you the idea(ha ha). But who is really going to do that? Not just give me free tren, but do 3 conversions and get them tested.
I am no chemist, but I would agree with rainjack. I think the purpose to add the oil and then filter is that the tren will be in the oil, rather than sitting down within the binders, and only portions of it in the BA/BB.
[quote]lattimus wrote:
Hmmm. True, rainjack. That might be an issue. Another reason that you run the oil through the filter with the tren solution is to sterilize, and filter the oil itself. (even though you are going to bake it for sterilization anyway)
[/quote]
He is talking about the first filter - not the final filter. The first filter is through a coffees filter, or painters cap. This is for filtering the binders. The filter through the whatman is what you are referring to - I think. You always filter you whole solution through the whatman - never parts of the solution separately.
And BTW - there is no real need to bake your gear if you have filtered it through a .22 micron whatman.
(sorry it took so long to reply)
I was talking about the first filter as well. Some people don’t dump the pellet/BA/oil through a coffe filter. They just let the gunk/fillers settle and pull up all the liquid and filter through a wattman.
Of course, you may be losing some tren in the gunk, so you can “re-wash” with more oil, shake,let settle, pull the oil, push through a filter. Then, if you really want all the tren, you can put the gunk in a coffe filter and sqeeze out the residual oil. And again filter that.
But you need more than one filter “just in case” (I would have 3), with this protocol. Either way you look at it, you lose some tren in a coffe filter or left in the “gunk”.
So that is where my advise stems from. I was thinking that he would use this technique. But it doesn’t really matter what I say as long as this guy got his answers. And since he isn’t around, I hope that means that he did. And from what you say, rainjack, sounds like you have more brewing experience than I do, so I might be complicating things more than they need be.
Converting fina is the easiest conversion you can possibly do. The hardest part is just waiting for thepellets to dissolve
Thanks for all the feedback.
I’m still curious as to the actual chemistry behind this. Does the fina chemicly bind to the oil?? Or is the oil just carrying the fina in solution??
Regardless, It seems ike the “standard” protocol is the way to go.
Another thought would be to SLIGHTLY warm the solvent/pellet solution. All chemical reactions happen faster warmer, so placing the bottle with pellets and solvent in a warm water bath should help that along.
Another concern is the solvent. How do we know that it is only dissolving the fina?? Can we be sure that it isn’t dissolving some of the carrier material or coloring from the pellet? (This is why I asked about the chemistry. I want to understand what is going on.)
Thanks,
-DV
Oh, you want the chemistry? Well, I can do my best. Some degreed chem guy might be about to do a better job.
Let’s start off with the general statement that “like dissolves like”. If you have ever taken a chemistry class you will remember that. The tren is not directly soluble in oil. Which is why you need the BA/BB with are polar substances. They both have the BENZYL (or phenyl) groups that aren’t polar. But then the BA has the alcohol group that is polar. So the BA/BB will pick up the tren into solution. Then when you mix the tren-BA complex with oil, it will then go into an oil solution due to the dual nature of the BA (polar, but has that big phenyl group).
As far as the BA/BB picking up “other things” from the pellets … I don’t know. But that is my explaination of the chemistry involved … it has been some time since my O-Chem days at the university.
When I filter Tren through a coffee filter, I go ahead and “wet” the filter with clean oil. In that way, the Tren oil doesn’t soak into the filter, but passes on through.
You guys may be interested to know that the “why oil” question may be unnecessary.
An underground lab here in the United States has procured Trenbolone Base powder, and has begun making tren Suspension.
So we’re about to see Tren as a water based injectable soon.
[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
You guys may be interested to know that the “why oil” question may be unnecessary.
An underground lab here in the United States has procured Trenbolone Base powder, and has begun making tren Suspension.
So we’re about to see Tren as a water based injectable soon.
[/quote]
Has anyone tried tren suspension before? Not that it means anyhing, but I have never seen it.
That sounds interesting. Thanks, AR.
Lattimus,
That was what I was looking for. THANKS!!!
I’m still curious if the BA will dissolve any of the other ingredients. (From what I understand it is mostly some kind of cellulose material and a coloring agent.)
Still wondering why we add oil before filtering. It probably doesn’t make a huge difference either way, but I was curious.
Thanks again,
-DV
[quote]lattimus wrote:
Oh, you want the chemistry? Well, I can do my best. Some degreed chem guy might be about to do a better job.
Let’s start off with the general statement that “like dissolves like”. If you have ever taken a chemistry class you will remember that. The tren is not directly soluble in oil. Which is why you need the BA/BB with are polar substances. They both have the BENZYL (or phenyl) groups that aren’t polar. But then the BA has the alcohol group that is polar. So the BA/BB will pick up the tren into solution. Then when you mix the tren-BA complex with oil, it will then go into an oil solution due to the dual nature of the BA (polar, but has that big phenyl group).
As far as the BA/BB picking up “other things” from the pellets … I don’t know. But that is my explaination of the chemistry involved … it has been some time since my O-Chem days at the university.[/quote]