Finance Capitalism = Racism?

[quote]xandrewx wrote:
I am however happy that we now live in a country where my generation can view slavery and most openly racist acts as something in the distant past.
[/quote]

So perhaps the point of the OP prof was to get students thinking about the not openly overt and institutional forms of racism that still exist in your generation. I teach students who say racism is not a problem and then make racists statements in the same class. They claim the statements are not racist because they are not racist. So while it is not overtly racist…

[quote]orion wrote:
I just so happened to look up irony:

i�·ro�·ny (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i�·ro�·nies
1.
a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.
2.
a. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
b. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
3. Dramatic irony.
4. Socratic irony.[/quote]
Help me out, it has been a long week. Your point?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:
I’ve been in the corporate world now for over 10 years and I’m sorry but I don’t see any racism what so ever.

[/quote]

Are you a minority?[/quote]

Do I need to be?[/quote]

Gee, to notice whether there is racism against minorities that in today’s society is much more covert than people wearing KKK shirts to work? Yeah, probably.

The statement that there is no racism in the corporate world based on the perception of a nonminority is simply illogical…unless you truly believe there is no racism in which case you may just be insane minority or not.
[/quote]

Most “majorities” are pretty blind to racism. His viewpoint is pretty common.

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I just so happened to look up irony:

i�?�·ro�?�·ny (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i�?�·ro�?�·nies
1.
a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
c. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.
2.
a. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
b. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
3. Dramatic irony.
4. Socratic irony.[/quote]
Help me out, it has been a long week. Your point?[/quote]

If you dont get it I prpbably responded to the voices in my head.

My bad.

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]xandrewx wrote:
I am however happy that we now live in a country where my generation can view slavery and most openly racist acts as something in the distant past.
[/quote]

So perhaps the point of the OP prof was to get students thinking about the not openly overt and institutional forms of racism that still exist in your generation. I teach students who say racism is not a problem and then make racists statements in the same class. They claim the statements are not racist because they are not racist. So while it is not overtly racist…[/quote]

I agree. My issue is when the study of racism in America turns minorities into victims in present day. However this could be empowering if the professor also instructs on what actions are available to those who feel they have been discriminated against. because there are processes in place this significantly reduces the blow of racism to small minded viewpoints by misguided individuals.

If half the energy was spent tackling minority racism (here I refer to the phenomenon of not wanting to be seen as "Acting white) as is put into being on the lookout for white racism, we might get somewhere. Not that racism can actually be eradicated any more than rape.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Most “majorities” are pretty blind to racism. His viewpoint is pretty common. [/quote]

I totally disagree. Many white people will act like racism disgusts them when they are among minorities. But once they’re alone with other white people, they’ll have no problem saying racist shit. So your generalization above is off. We’re not somehow mysterious blind to racism. Some of us take part in it, some of us are offended by it, and some of us really just don’t give a fuck because it doesn’t affect us.

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

While I don’t doubt that racism exists in education, the example you give appears to be discrimination against poor people, not against non-whites. As JoeGood says, that is “classism” not “racism”.
[/quote]

Again, I don’t disagree with this - but in my view, and in terms of “institutionalized racism”, classism is inherently racist since people of color already start off in a disadvantaged position when compared to their peers.
[/quote]
Except that there are plenty of wealthy black people and plenty of poor white people. Labeling classism as racism ignores these groups and therefore is not accurate.[/quote]

It may not be perfectly accurate, but to deny that “classism” can have generationally RACIST effects is just naive. It may have been “classism” when a company first starts its hiring practices, but 20 years later when this is done across many corporations, it will no doubt effect blacks and hispanics on a much larger scale, therefore making is a racial issue as well.

You are using semantics to ignore the overall effects on a grand scale.

White poor people existing does not erase the larger racial effect when looking at THOUSANDS of people.[/quote]

You seem to have completely mixed up correlation with causation. If a person is denied something because they cannot afford it that is not racism.

If you want to say that racism has caused more minorities to be lower class then sure, I’ll buy that. But classism itself did not cause this and is not “inherently racist”. “Rich” and “Poor” are, quite simply, not races.[/quote]

I’m sorry sir, but who purports these classifications of “rich” and “poor” but those who have the means to do so - which in most cases are white people. So class is indeed inherently racist.

And here’s a little stat procured by yours truly from the 2005 census bureau. Blacks and Hispanics under earned all races by nearly half. Please explain how this does not support the claim that class is a function of racism, when blacks have never once earned half of what whites make in all of history.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]xandrewx wrote:
I highly encourage everyone to read the book Negrophilia by Erik Rush. Here is the description from Amazon.com:

Negrophilia studies the undue and inordinate affinity for blacks (as opposed to antipathy toward them) that has been promoted by activists, politicians and the establishment press for the past 40 years and which has fostered an erroneous perception of blacks, particularly in America. The book dissects the dynamic of race relations and race politics with an emphasis on same since the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, how these are likely to develop given a Barack Obama presidency, and how conscientious Americans may discern the deeper truths of these matters and thus develop healthier perceptions.

http://astore.amazon.com/www5100bloc0b-20/detail/1935071823[/quote]

LOL. So what was the previous few hundred years of “white affinity” called?

[/quote]

Feudalism and servitude.

It was a time where 80% or so lived to serve their masters that were born into that privilege.

Sounds familiar?

[/quote]

â??The ruling ideas of each age have ever been the ideas of its ruling class.â??

meh

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

I’m sorry sir, but who purports these classifications of “rich” and “poor” but those who have the means to do so - which in most cases are white people. So class is indeed inherently racist.
[/quote]

That is a stretch in logic if I’ve ever seen one.

Class is primarily function of financial wealth or absence of. How much race plays into it, you’ll never know. It can’t be accurately quantified. What we do know is that black and hispanics who are here legally have all the opportunities necessary to earn a middle class salary or better. Whether or not they take advantage of these opportunities is up to them.

^ do they? If they did how come so many less of these people of color graduate from college?

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Most “majorities” are pretty blind to racism. His viewpoint is pretty common. [/quote]

I totally disagree. Many white people will act like racism disgusts them when they are among minorities. But once they’re alone with other white people, they’ll have no problem saying racist shit. So your generalization above is off. We’re not somehow mysterious blind to racism. Some of us take part in it, some of us are offended by it, and some of us really just don’t give a fuck because it doesn’t affect us. [/quote]

I’m not referring to people making racist jokes in private many people do that. I’m referring to forms of racism that actually keep minorities down in one form or another. What I’m saying is many “majorities” do not believe racism is all that prevalent anymore and doesn’t play much of a role in society today. My post has nothing to do about whether “majorities” care about racism or not but to the extent they believe it affects the lives of minorities.

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
^ do they? If they did how come so many less of these people of color graduate from college?[/quote]

Do they not have access to student loans or financial aide? Have you never heard of the EOF program? (http://www.nj.gov/highereducation/EOF/EOF_Eligibility.htm not sure what the equivalent is in other states) They face the same challenges as poor white people.

Do you think the professors fail them on purpose because they’re not white? Or no college will accept them because they are black?

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
^ do they? If they did how come so many less of these people of color graduate from college?[/quote]

They couldn’t hack it.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I’m not referring to people making racist jokes in private many people do that. I’m referring to forms of racism that actually keep minorities down in one form or another. What I’m saying is many “majorities” do not believe racism is all that prevalent anymore and doesn’t play much of a role in society today. My post has nothing to do about whether “majorities” care about racism or not but to the extent they believe it affects the lives of minorities. [/quote]

What you said was

“Most “majorities” are pretty blind to racism.”

Which implies that majorities are somehow oblivious to racism. What I’m telling you is that we all hear it time to time so we’re not oblivious. It’s not just majorities either. My masters program was at least 75% Indian students and they were more racist toward black than the white people I’ve met.

What you are now saying in this post is different. You went from “most” to “many”. And you went from saying majorities are “blind to racism” to "majorities don’t believe it’s that prevalent. That’s a much different stance IMO.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I’m not referring to people making racist jokes in private many people do that. I’m referring to forms of racism that actually keep minorities down in one form or another. What I’m saying is many “majorities” do not believe racism is all that prevalent anymore and doesn’t play much of a role in society today. My post has nothing to do about whether “majorities” care about racism or not but to the extent they believe it affects the lives of minorities. [/quote]

What you said was

“Most “majorities” are pretty blind to racism.”

Which implies that majorities are somehow oblivious to racism. What I’m telling you is that we all hear it time to time so we’re not oblivious. It’s not just majorities either. My masters program was at least 75% Indian students and they were more racist toward black than the white people I’ve met.

What you are now saying in this post is different. You went from “most” to “many”. And you went from saying majorities are “blind to racism” to "majorities don’t believe it’s that prevalent. That’s a much different stance IMO.[/quote]

Saying “majorities” are blind to racism and them not believing it’s prevalent (when it is) isn’t different. Also I used most and many interchangeably and I think you are really arguing over semantics.

That aside, perhaps its just a cultural difference between Canada and the US. Most whites I’ve talked to would tell you racism isn’t much of an issue here, while most minorities will have the opposite opinion.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

While I don’t doubt that racism exists in education, the example you give appears to be discrimination against poor people, not against non-whites. As JoeGood says, that is “classism” not “racism”.
[/quote]

Again, I don’t disagree with this - but in my view, and in terms of “institutionalized racism”, classism is inherently racist since people of color already start off in a disadvantaged position when compared to their peers.
[/quote]
Except that there are plenty of wealthy black people and plenty of poor white people. Labeling classism as racism ignores these groups and therefore is not accurate.[/quote]

It may not be perfectly accurate, but to deny that “classism” can have generationally RACIST effects is just naive. It may have been “classism” when a company first starts its hiring practices, but 20 years later when this is done across many corporations, it will no doubt effect blacks and hispanics on a much larger scale, therefore making is a racial issue as well.

You are using semantics to ignore the overall effects on a grand scale.

White poor people existing does not erase the larger racial effect when looking at THOUSANDS of people.[/quote]

What? Arguing semantics? Is that what you say when you know you’re wrong about something but refuse to admit it?

You are calling what is actually an inherent bias founded in economic stratification RACISM, which is, by the very definition of RACISM, incorrect. Racism is SOCIAL stratification.

From Merriam-Webster’s:
Racism:
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2: racial prejudice or discrimination

Just because the stratification falls along racial lines AT TIMES does not racism make. Racism explicity requires a prejudice based primarily on race. Correlation =/= Causality. Race and class are CORRELATED but certainly not CAUSAL. You want a CAUSAL relationship? Being poor in the present tends to cause being poor in the future.

You are trying to do your usual tapdance around the facts by dismissing what is really relevant evidence that is entirely contradictory to your claims. Appalachia and even much of the rural Southeast demonstrate fairly well that the issues in education and resources are due to inherent CLASSISM. Underperforming schools are underfunded because of a low local tax base, not because any minority is in attendance. This is discrimination based on INCOME, not race. If it were racist (by the DEFINITION of racism, those damned semantics!), then whites in low income areas would somehow be exempt from the ill effects of coming up in a poor area with dysfunctional schools. As proven by Appalachia, parts of the rural Southeast, and destitute areas of the midwest, this is hardly the case, therefor, RACISM is not the culprit.

This bullshit you are spouting off is the typical “blame everyone because we’re black” rhetoric that shuysters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have used to dupe a generation of potentially gifted and talented young Americans into thinking that it’s not their fault because THE SYSTEM is out to get them and that they DESERVE special consideration because of things that never happened to them personally.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:
I’ve been in the corporate world now for over 10 years and I’m sorry but I don’t see any racism what so ever.

[/quote]

Are you a minority?[/quote]

Do you work for a corporation?

This “talking about shit of which you have no understanding” is a two way street, you know.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Gee, to notice whether there is racism against minorities that in today’s society is much more covert than people wearing KKK shirts to work? Yeah, probably.

The statement that there is no racism in the corporate world based on the perception of a nonminority is simply illogical…unless you truly believe there is no racism in which case you may just be insane minority or not.
[/quote]

This is entirely illogical. Is racism the fucking tooth fairy now? You have to believe in it to see it?

The fact that you are asserting that whites (nonminorities) are inherently unable to discern racism means one of two things: 1) the racism of which you speak isn’t actually occurring, but is rather a different from of discrimination that you are mistakingly associating with racism OR 2) you believe that all nonminorities are inherently racist and therefor inherently incapable of acting without racial bias. #1 is likely, #2 is a grossly and demonstratively false viewpoint as well as racist on your part.