.
I think that partly it is about role models. I was lucky enough to get a personal trainer who wasn’t total crap, and who showed me how to do such things as standing presses and rows. I needed to look them up on the internet to remember how to do them. I managed to find the crossfit websites… Women models doing all kinds of heavy weights exercises who looked like extremely fit women. I was inspired. Hell, the day he was like ‘no no no - OVER your head’ with the standing press - I was inspired.
I found stumptuous. Little words of wisdom: You will come to look how you come to look. Worry less about how you look and more about what you can DO.
I learned to do that, I think.
The gym isn’t a fashion show… It is all about making progress towards what the hell ever your goals are.
I also think that how women are inclined to view themselves can really be very different from how others (both women and men) are inclined to view them. I personally feel quite horrified when a bicep of mine pops out. Guys don’t seem repulsed, though. I play around with light snatches and cleans (like with a 10kg bar… Or a 15kg bar… Or sometimes with a 20kg bar…) in the main gym sometimes and I see both guys and girls feeling inspired to go beyond the regular ‘bodypump’ standard of weightlifting.
Now I’m feeling kind of like it is my civic duty to show people something of the (extremely crappy) limits of what is possible…
I’m in an odd position, I guess. Was exposed to olympic weightlifting fairly early via the internet. Crossfit, sure, but also simply a whole variety of weightclasses of both guys and girls. Inspired by the Chinese ‘the moment when strength and beauty come together’ or somesuch. That is my aspiration now. And sometimes others see me and… Seem to be inspired. Of course, I’m still pretty crap… But I’ll get there. I’ve inspired myself, at least.
But then I’m also very used to ‘hanging with the guys’. My work is very much me in a male dominated field. And all my life, really, I’ve found guys pretty cool to hang with and girls (often enough I’m sorry to say) weird arse bitches who will often enough stab you in the back. That is changing now… But most of my girlfriends… Are also girls who are used to hanging with guys in a male dominated field… Oh well. Guys are pretty cool, I reckon 
But then I’m also really into Olympic Weightlifting. I reckon things can be quite different for women who are into bodybuilding (natural or otherwise). I mean… The women in both (IMHO) look feminine compared to the guys who are in both - but for both men and women who aren’t in either there is a temptation to say they look ‘masculine’ (perhaps because they aren’t comparing them to the relevant class of guys!?) but now I feel like a sexist bitch for saying so… If a women wants to look at bulked / ripped as possible… Even if she is more bulked / ripped than the guys out there… She is still a women in virtue of being a woman, of course.
It is weird.
In some respects… I’m ashamed to say that I do have gender stereotypes (appreciating them as such, but not really having a desire to change them with respect to myself or what it is that I find attractive). But people should do what it is that people want to do. It upsets me when people mistake their preference for some objective standard. It upsets me when guys bicep curl and get upset when I’m not paying attention because I’m trying to catch a snatch…
I dunno. The gym is a weird space, I guess. But then there are a variety of gyms with a variety of gym cultures, too. Can be the same with the workplace (or in my field, academia). Go to the best place you can (for whatever it is that you aspire to do) so you are inspired to be better rather than going some place that initially makes you feel wonderful that at the end of the day only holds you back…
I reckon.
Too much needless analysis in this thread. Who cares how other people work out? These logs are for those of us who value lifting heavy and training hard. If everyone liked the same activity, the line for the cage would be miles long. There are women who like to look waif-like and men who are attracted to that look.
There are women who like to look strong and muscular and men who are attracted to that look. While I actually am built more like a waif, I love to lift heavy because the physical strength seems to translate into mental strength for me and feeds my soul.
^ for that reason I appreciate not every woman likes or wants to lift heavy!
What gets me is that when I tell people(women) how I train and how I plan on training them, they look like they want to run in the other direction!
Most want to be fed ridiculous routines, and then complain they are not seeing results. Most of the work is done outside of the gym anyway.
Don’t overthink this one people, it’s laziness and nothing else. Few people of either sex is accustomed to hard physical work. But this is more prevalent with females as opposed to males.
My son for example must train at la fitness while he’s at his mother’s house. He hates it. He talks of guys using the pad to squat 135 lbs. He weighs 132 and is fifteen and is hitting 150 x 12. He sees bigger guys going dumbell rows with 40lbs and using straps and gloves. He sees almost no one deadlift and if do, very seldom over 135.
His max is 320. His twin sister just missed 170 on her first deadlift max session. Shell be over 200 very soon at 5’2" and 115 pounds of adorableness.
But these kids train with me when they visit. I have a ton of weights, a monolift, bands chains, specialty bars etc. And we use chalk.
Katie sees dad doing 3 singles with 345 lbs and 250+ pounds of band tension, so she sees what I’d possible. And she’s taught that girls should lift heavy too.
For you trainers and gals that get it, you’re right and they’re wrong. I dealt with the same crap at thirteen when I started lifting. Now I’m 46, look 35 and carry a solid 202 at 5’7".
What do you think the critcs look like or are capable of? Are they knocking on the door of a six hundred pound deadlift at the same time they’re charging towards fifty?
Doubt it. I’d rather win than have my initial assumptions be right. My ego us do big that I put it aside to learn and grow because results and winning count.
I’m an ART trained chiropractor who works on Dave Tate’s q and a for some background info.
Years ago I was having the milionth dnd s half conversation on diet and exercise with done female friends. After a frustrating round dnd round talk I finally said, " let’s just assume I know everything and all of you know nothing."
Didnt make me very popular, but it sure felt good, haha!
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Don’t overthink this one people, it’s laziness and nothing else. Few people of either sex is accustomed to hard physical work. But this is more prevalent with females as opposed to males.
My son for example must train at la fitness while he’s at his mother’s house. He hates it. He talks of guys using the pad to squat 135 lbs. He weighs 132 and is fifteen and is hitting 150 x 12. He sees bigger guys going dumbell rows with 40lbs and using straps and gloves. He sees almost no one deadlift and if do, very seldom over 135.
His max is 320. His twin sister just missed 170 on her first deadlift max session. Shell be over 200 very soon at 5’2" and 115 pounds of adorableness.
But these kids train with me when they visit. I have a ton of weights, a monolift, bands chains, specialty bars etc. And we use chalk.
Katie sees dad doing 3 singles with 345 lbs and 250+ pounds of band tension, so she sees what I’d possible. And she’s taught that girls should lift heavy too.
For you trainers and gals that get it, you’re right and they’re wrong. I dealt with the same crap at thirteen when I started lifting. Now I’m 46, look 35 and carry a solid 202 at 5’7".
What do you think the critcs look like or are capable of? Are they knocking on the door of a six hundred pound deadlift at the same time they’re charging towards fifty?
Doubt it. I’d rather win than have my initial assumptions be right. My ego us do big that I put it aside to learn and grow because results and winning count. [/quote]
Tom, you are a good dad. Working with kids is the best, and there is nothing better than training with your own.
Thanks, I think example is the best teacher. My daughter might not become a plate head, but she’s been exposed. She is doing cross country this year and is thinking of swimming also.
For the serious gals, stay serious and don’t worry about the sheeple. There’s enough of them both sexes. I guess it’s easier for guys to integrate this life style in some ways of acceptance to the general public.
Look at the SI swimsuit issue and most of the models are about 20 years old. They look great, but they don’t have ideal bodies, they have youth. Women waste their lives hoping for something that can’t be achieved through any diet or workout–youth. Much better to embrace the fact that a perfect adult body is going to have to be more muscular than the youthful ideal most women aspire to, because you just can’t turn back the clock. The fat that accumulates with age, having kids, life… is simply most effectively removed by getting tough. It’s a simple concept from a scientific standpoint but a lot tougher to take from an emotional one. This post probably now qualifies me as an obnoxious internet wannabe expert.
[quote]rtm27 wrote:
Look at the SI swimsuit issue and most of the models are about 20 years old. They look great, but they don’t have ideal bodies, they have youth. Women waste their lives hoping for something that can’t be achieved through any diet or workout–youth. Much better to embrace the fact that a perfect adult body is going to have to be more muscular than the youthful ideal most women aspire to, because you just can’t turn back the clock. The fat that accumulates with age, having kids, life… is simply most effectively removed by getting tough. It’s a simple concept from a scientific standpoint but a lot tougher to take from an emotional one. This post probably now qualifies me as an obnoxious internet wannabe expert.[/quote]
I think the women on this site get it. There are plenty of 40 and 50 somethings on here who are lifting heavy and looking better than ever. You don’t seem obnoxious and you have a nice chest. There, now I’m the obnoxious one 
[quote]rtm27 wrote:
Look at the SI swimsuit issue and most of the models are about 20 years old. They look great, but they don’t have ideal bodies, they have youth. Women waste their lives hoping for something that can’t be achieved through any diet or workout–youth. Much better to embrace the fact that a perfect adult body is going to have to be more muscular than the youthful ideal most women aspire to, because you just can’t turn back the clock. The fat that accumulates with age, having kids, life… is simply most effectively removed by getting tough. It’s a simple concept from a scientific standpoint but a lot tougher to take from an emotional one. This post probably now qualifies me as an obnoxious internet wannabe expert.[/quote]
You’re right. I’m 46 and if I had the goofy mentality of many women I would try to look like one of those Twilight homos. But that’s not going to happen.i can stay fit and strong, and by doing so i’ll appear a little younger, but I can’t or do not want to look twenty.
I’m usually the only one in the weight room at times while other woen are using machines or doing cardio
let us not be haters. There are some very hot women that do not lift like you lovely ladies. Result is USUALLY a different type of hot. However, I can certainly say that as long as a women is in good shape then she is on the right track.
Note: I do not think women need to lift heavy to look great and many men do find women who are muscular unattractive, not me, just like many men find women who are muscualr to be beautiful. Different strokes for different folks.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
I would try to look like one of those Twilight homos. [/quote]
This made my day.
[quote]attydeb2005 wrote:
[quote]rtm27 wrote:
Look at the SI swimsuit issue and most of the models are about 20 years old. They look great, but they don’t have ideal bodies, they have youth. Women waste their lives hoping for something that can’t be achieved through any diet or workout–youth. Much better to embrace the fact that a perfect adult body is going to have to be more muscular than the youthful ideal most women aspire to, because you just can’t turn back the clock. The fat that accumulates with age, having kids, life… is simply most effectively removed by getting tough. It’s a simple concept from a scientific standpoint but a lot tougher to take from an emotional one. This post probably now qualifies me as an obnoxious internet wannabe expert.[/quote]
Sound advice. Not obnoxious at all - try harder next time :)!
[quote]eagertolearn wrote:
let us not be haters. There are some very hot women that do not lift like you lovely ladies. Result is USUALLY a different type of hot. However, I can certainly say that as long as a women is in good shape then she is on the right track.
Note: I do not think women need to lift heavy to look great and many men do find women who are muscular unattractive, not me, just like many men find women who are muscualr to be beautiful. Different strokes for different folks.[/quote]
Um, photoshop helps too.
You are right about the different strokes thing. However, keep in mind “heavy” is a relative word. If a woman wants to gain a celebrity look, and some are not bad either, most are still going to need to lift “heavy”. That doesn’t mean she is going to have to pull 1 rep maxes every month or compete in strength sports. It means progressively adding weight to the bar. To achieve a ripped or heavily muscular appearance takes hard work and dedication to that end goal. Heavy does not mean she will turn overly angular and lose her curves on accident. If this were the case I’d be a she-hulk, and so would most of the women who participate in this forum.
[quote]dianab wrote:
[quote]eagertolearn wrote:
let us not be haters. There are some very hot women that do not lift like you lovely ladies. Result is USUALLY a different type of hot. However, I can certainly say that as long as a women is in good shape then she is on the right track.
Note: I do not think women need to lift heavy to look great and many men do find women who are muscular unattractive, not me, just like many men find women who are muscualr to be beautiful. Different strokes for different folks.[/quote]
Um, photoshop helps too.
You are right about the different strokes thing. However, keep in mind “heavy” is a relative word. If a woman wants to gain a celebrity look, and some are not bad either, most are still going to need to lift “heavy”. That doesn’t mean she is going to have to pull 1 rep maxes every month or compete in strength sports. It means progressively adding weight to the bar. To achieve a ripped or heavily muscular appearance takes hard work and dedication to that end goal. Heavy does not mean she will turn overly angular and lose her curves on accident. If this were the case I’d be a she-hulk, and so would most of the women who participate in this forum.[/quote]
This. DEFINATELY this. Well said.